MY BRICK WALL

[rubeaz]

COMPLICATED BRICK WALL - ADVICE/HELP NEEDED

Time has passed and I am still no further advanced. Drving me nuts
Back again with more information re my Hamilton/Hunt/Elliot ancestors but probably more confused that ever

I found marriage information for Thomas Hunt and Margaret Duke (or Margaret Elliot or Margaret Hamilton ) 1850 in Cavan on an IGI Ireland Marriages Index James Elliot is listed as father of Margaret Duke .

They are aged 39 so probably Thomas Hunt was married before. Margaret was previously married to William Hamilton dec. 44th Regiment of Foot) see my other posts - trying to find what happened to him is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

I have Margaret Hunt's DC1874 Scotland which states 1st husband William Hamilton dec and thomas Hunt dec.

This is where I'm confused

My ggg grandmother Mary Ann Hunt born in Belturbet Cavan according to the IGI 1844 (submitted) Parents Thomas Hunt and Margaret Elliot

Is it possible that Mary Ann was Thomas Hunt's daughter and Margaret raised her as her own child Or, could she have been a Hamilton child

Thomas and Margaret had a son born 1851 in Cavan who died in Scotland 1856 and I have his DC stating Thomas Hunt (chelsea pensioner) and Margaret Elliot parents.

I know Hamilton/Elliot had a son William Hamilton born Gibraltar about 1840 according to 1881 England Census and yet on Scotland Census states born Ireland and is using the Hunt surname but on his marriage certificate in 1864 states William Hamilton.

I hope someone maybe able to help be unravel this mystery. Not sure what my ancestors were thinking

[LesleyB]

Hi rubeaz
I've removed your duplicate post.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Currie]

Hello Rubeaz,

As you know the 44th Regiment of Foot was annihilated during the retreat from Kabul in 1842.

I just found a book, “The Military Operations at Cabul”, published 1843. I don’t think you’ve seen it before. It lists officers killed and those soldiers who survived and were taken prisoner. From page 425 it lists about 40 rank and file of the 44th who were released from captivity in 1842. I can’t see your fellow amongst them. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=V8V ... J&pg=PA419

About 600 of the 44th Foot’s rank and file were killed but they don’t appear to have been listed anywhere ever.

Here’s your old post about this. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=13677&hilit=

All the best,
Alan

[rubeaz]

To Lesley and Alan

Thankyou for your replies.

Alan I looked at the link you sent with interest. I have a subscription for Ancestry and have found a William Hamilton 44th Regiment of Foot (UK MILITARY CAMPAIGN MEDAL AND AWARD ROLLS 1793-1949) Service Date 1842-1860 Service Location China Regimental No. ??19. I am wondering if I contact the National Archives with this - would it be enough info to search to find any other details - marriage etc. Living in Australia I am not too sure how the Archives work
My real problem is Margaret Elliot/Duke/Hamilton/Hunt. Every certificate I have obtained from Scotlands People she uses a different name on each, I am now thinking she may have married 3 times - instead of 2
Alan many thanks for trying to help - it is appreciated. I should probably be happy with what I have achieved already

Cheers Kay

[Currie]

Hello Kay,

These are the travels of the 44th Regiment of Foot from regiments.org etc.

In India/Afghanistan from 1822 until annihilation 1842
Reformed in England 1843
1845 to Ireland
1848 to Malta
1851 to Gibraltar
1854 to Turkey/Crimea
1856 to England
1857 to India
1860 to China/Hong Kong

“Historical record of the Forty-fourth”, published in 1864, has some interesting information I haven’t seen before, although it doesn’t go so far as to give a full list of the deceased rank and file. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=iGY ... J&pg=PA160

On page 160 it says. “A detachment of the 44th (three hundred and twentyseven strong), under Brevet-Major Johnston, had proceeded from Cawnpore in November, 1841, for Affghanistan, and on marching through Delhi in December, heard, for the first time, of the Cabul outbreak.”

And “the detachment of the 44th now proceeding with the force to Affghanistan will cease to belong to it from the receipt of this order, and will fall back by forced march to Ferozepore, as it goes to join a regiment which does not exist.”

If I’m reading it correctly it seems that the detachment was to be part of the post massacre relieving force but was ordered back in January, 1842. They missed the massacre but during their five month stay at Ferozepore almost half of them died from asphyxia.

“This portion of the 44th, increased by the arrival of two drafts from home [presumably they would have been from the regiment’s depot at Chatham], after giving volunteers to other corps continuing in India, embarked for England early in February, 1843.”

It appears there were more 44th regiment remnants than previously thought, although many of them died soon after from other causes, some joined other regiments in India, and the rest returned to England. Page 149 of the book mentions that the paymaster was killed during the retreat and many valuable papers were lost, I don’t know whether that would have any impact on things.

Better have a good read of the 1841-43 part of the book in case I lost the plot somewhere.

I’ve never chased up a Kew military record but the most important thing is that you know the regiment and a year he was a member thereof. It may come down to whether there were any other members with the same name to confuse things. There’s some info about commissioning research via a link on this page. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/reco ... lp=rg-3110

I don’t know how much help the Ancestry record would be, does it say what medal was involved. If 1842 is to do with his enlistment date maybe he was one of the new recruits.

All the best,
Alan

[rubeaz]

Hi again Alan

Thanks for the information re where the regiment was stationed. That will help me very much in narrowing the search

The biggest hurdle I have is Margaret ELLIOT nee HAMILTON, nee DUKE nee HUNT. She must have married 3 times, because all the records I have mentions all of these names

1st marriage was William HAMILTON
2nd marriage was ???????? DUKE
3rd marriage was Thomas HUNT

Margaret married Thomas HUNT 1850 in Cavan - they were both 39 so Thomas HUNT was also probably married before.
They moved to Glasgow after they were married and I have found them on the scottish census.

I certainly have my work cut out with them

Thankyou so much Alan for your input - it's much appreciated

Cheers and best wishes Kay

[LesleyB]

hi Kay

The biggest hurdle I have is Margaret ELLIOT nee HAMILTON, nee DUKE nee HUNT

She surely can only have one original surname that she was born with....so M.S. or nee Elliot if James Elliot was listed as her father on a marriage? Nee (born) does not tend to be used in Scottish records, M.S. for maiden surname is more often used. The others are married surnames from what you have said earlier.

I have Margaret Hunt's DC1874 Scotland which states 1st husband William Hamilton dec and thomas Hunt dec.

Who is the death informant on this document and who have they given as her parents?

My ggg grandmother Mary Ann Hunt born in Belturbet Cavan according to the IGI 1844 (submitted) Parents Thomas Hunt and Margaret Elliot

Could there perhaps be two couples with the same name - it has certainly happened before. On the other hand, I'd not be trusting an IGI submission 100%...
Where did your ggg grandmother Mary Ann Hunt die?

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

On IGI the submission reads as follows

Mary Ann Hunt OR Hunter Birth: 1846 (not 1844 as mentioned above), , Ireland
Parents:
Father: Thomas Hunt OR Hunter
Mother: Margaret Elliot

Marriages:
Spouse: William Buchanan
Marriage: 03 SEP 1863 Gorbals, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Children

1. Catherine Buchanan
Female
Birth: 05 AUG 1876 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

2. Mary Buchanan
Female
Birth: 1875 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

3. Charles Buchanan
Male
Birth: 1879 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

4. John Buchanan Pedigree
Male
Birth: 1881 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

So, have you a copy of the 1863 marriage (if the submission is accurate)? What is stated there as to Mary's age and parent names? Where does she say she is born in subsequent census data?

Best wishes
Lesley

[Montrose Budie]

The 1863 marriage of Mary Ann HUNT to William BUCHANAN, Cloth Lapper or Cropper, shows her parents as Thomas HUNT and Margaret HUNT MS ELLIOT. Her death register entry doesn't show any other spouses, but shows her parents as Thomas Henry HUNT, Soldier, and Margaret HUNT MS DUKE. The informant was the Widower William BUCHANAN. William BUCHANAN's occupation is shown as Carpet Factory Cropper, so this is most probably the same Mary Ann HUNT.

Margaret HUNT's death register entry shows her as Widow 1st of William HAMILTON, Soldier, and 2nd Thomas HUNT, Engineer. Her parents are shown as James ELLIOT and Catherine ELLIOT MS REILLY, the informant being her son Thomas HAMILTON . The informant was Son william HUNT, of Drypool, Hull.

Thomas Henry HUNT aged 5½ years died 1856, parents Thomas HUNT Chelsea Pensioner and Margaret HUNT MS ELLIOT.

mb

[rubeaz]

Hi Lesley and MB

I am wondering am I able to upload the certificates I have from Scotlands People for you to look at Maybe 'fresh' eyes will pickup something I have missed. I have gone over and over everything I have and think I am on the right track except the discrepancies on my certificates have me puzzled.

I also think whoever submitted the IGI for Mary Ann Hunt or Hunter 'gave up' the research because of what I have uncovered.
It's a complete PS Mary Ann Hunt according to census states born in Belturbet. William Buchanan born Barrhead.

I don't know if ever I will get passed it, but live in hope

Your help and support is greatly appreciated and if I can ever help anyone at TS from Australia I am more than happy, not that I am an expert by any means as you probably can tell by my posts

Kind regards and best wishes Kay