James Watson Payne, Glasgow to America.

rita · Post by **rita** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:17 pm

Hi All,
I have Passenger Records for two young brothers, James and Samuel Payne born in Glasgow.
James was age 15 and Samuel age 10, the date of arrival was July9th 1902, on the manifest it says that an uncle paid their fare and that they were going to stay with an Aunt Jane Smith at it looks like
491 Ridd Street Astoria?
I also have a later Passenger Record for James Watson Payne age 31 single born Scotland, last place of residence Bordeax, France, Date of arrival Oct 10 1917, manifest states he had been before and going to sister-Mrs Margeret Rendall, 1221 Gilbert Pl, N.Y.
I think it says YMCA paid his fare.
I have the boys in the 1901 census in Glasgow Samuel age9 was with sisters Margaret and Jane as boarders, and James age 14 was with relatives.
Hope someone can help what became of Samuel, and any other info of the family in America would be most welcome.
Kind Regards,
Rita.

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:09 pm

Hi Rita,
There is a Samuel John Payne, born 19 June 1891 in Glasgow, Scotland, who submitted a WWI Draft Registration Card in Queens County, New York in 1917. He is an Architectural Draughtsman and has an injured spine, so can't serve in the army.

In the 1910 census he was living in Queens, New York with John and Gene K Smith described as "Nephew of Wife"

All the best,
Sarah

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:21 pm

Hi again,
In 1920 he is stilll in Queens, living in the household of Wemyss Mowat as a brother-in-law. Looks like the wife Catherine is his sister-- did he also have a sister Catherine? Also in the household is an aunt, Margaret Watson.

By 1930 he has just married Margaret, and his birth place is mistakenly given as New York, but it is definitely the right person as the age and occupation match.

The Mowats and Aunt Margaret are still living together in 1930.

I don't see offhand a death record for him, but then the New York state death records are not easily found, so that's no surprise. Unfortunately, there is no central record office like SP, so you pretty much have to go through the state and county of residence. Some have been made easy of access, but most haven't.

Regards,
Sarah

rita · Post by **rita** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:07 pm

Hi Sarah,
Thanks so much for your reply,
Yes, Samuel John David Payne was born 1891 in Glasgow and his sister
Catherine-Roberts Payne was born 1877 he also had a sister called Margaret born 1877 was she maybe the aunt? I don't know if she had a middle name Watson, can you tell me the age of the supposed aunt in the census, or did you mean that the Margaret Watson was an aunt of Wemyss Mowat?
Sorry if I'm sounding a bit confused but heck the earlier generation caused confusion as well in Glasgow with all the lodgers 2nd and 3rd marriages and cousins marrying etc.
Thanks again Sarah for spending your time looking this up for me it is much appreciated.
Rita.

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Fri May 01, 2009 6:16 am

Hello Rita,

Here are some more ingredients from the New York Times:

30th December, 1930.
PAYNE—On Monday, Dec. 29, 1930, Samuel, beloved husband of Margaret Wilson Payne and brother of James W. Payne, Mrs. W. G. Mowat and Mrs. R. J. H. Hutton. Services will be held at his residence, 29-33 165th St., Flushing, L. I., on Wednesday afternoon, Dec. 31, at 2:30 o’clock. Internment Flushing Cemetery.

14th September, 1932.
SMITH—On Tuesday, Sept. 13, 1932, Jane R. Smith, beloved sister of Mrs. Margaret Watson, Mrs. Robert Rowan, and loving aunt of Mrs. W. G. Mowat, Mrs. R. J. Hutton, Alexander Watson and James W. Payne. Services will be held at the residence of her niece, Mrs. W. G. Mowat, 33-32 85th St., Jackson Heights, L. I., on Friday afternoon, Sept. 16, at 2 o’clock. Internment Flushing Cemetery.

14th August, 1935.
MOWAT—ELLIS
Special to the New York Times.
SEA CLIFF, L. I., Aug 13.—The engagement of Miss Catherine Payne Mowat, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Wemyss Grant Mowat, of New York and Sea Cliff, to Dr. Wade Bishop Ellis of Buffalo, son of Mr. and John E. Ellis of Bradford Pa., has been announced by her parents at their Summer home here.

14th July 1957
MOWAT—Wemyss G., on July 12, 1957, beloved husband of Catherine R., loving father of Catherine M. Goodfellow. Reposing at “The Hallett Homestead,” 147th St. and Northern Boulevard, Flushing, L. I., until Sunday at 3 P. M. Religious services at “The Astoria Presbyterian Church” on Sunday at 8 P. M. Masonic Services by Advance Lodge, No. 635, F. and A. M. 8:30 P. M. Internment Flushing Cemetery, Monday, 10 A M.

27th March 1969.
GOODFELLOW—Catherine M. Suddenly on March 26, 1969, of Jackson Heights, L. I., beloved wife of Robert C., loving daughter of Catherine R. Mowat. Religious services at “Howard L. Hallett, Inc.” 149-20 Northern Blvd, Flushing, on Friday at 8 P.M. Internment Flushing Cemetery, Saturday, 10 A.M.

If you want the images for these just send me a PM with an email address and I’ll send them.

All the best,
Alan

LATER

Here’s another one,

28th May, 1911.
Two amateur performances were given last week by the Dramatic Society of the Church of the Resurrection. One was ‘The Peacemaker,” with the following in the cast: William Ferguson-Davie, Norbert Lusk, Miss Ethel M. Nelson, Mrs. Catherine Payne Mowat, and Miss Jean Payne. There were songs and pianos and harp solos in the intermission, and then “Acacia Cottage” was given by Miss Nelson, Mrs Mowat, Miss Payne, Miss Laura Gosling, and Mr. Ferguson Davie.

Also here, bottom page, towards bottom of RH column.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 946096D6CF

Alan

Post by **SarahND** » Fri May 01, 2009 1:29 pm

rita wrote: Catherine-Roberts Payne was born 1877 he also had a sister called Margaret born 1877 was she maybe the aunt? I don't know if she had a middle name Watson, can you tell me the age of the supposed aunt in the census, or did you mean that the Margaret Watson was an aunt of Wemyss Mowat?

Thanks to Alan, we have this relationship untangled

From the article on 14 Sept 1932 it is clear that Margaret Watson is the sister of Jane Smith. Both of them are aunts to James, Samuel, Catherine, as is Mrs. Robert Rowan... Do you know who she is?

Sad that Samuel died so young

Interesting stuff, as usual, Alan!

Regards,
Sarah

Post by **joette** » Fri May 01, 2009 3:16 pm

What I want to know is did Catherine Mowatt marry her Dr Ellis before she married Robert Goodfellow? Or was there a broken engagement?

Post by **SarahND** » Fri May 01, 2009 6:32 pm

joette wrote:What I want to know is did Catherine Mowatt marry her Dr Ellis before she married Robert Goodfellow? Or was there a broken engagement?

Wade Bishop Ellis was born abt 1905 in Pennsylvania, and was a doctor in a hospital in Rochester, New York in the 1930 census

I don't see any further sign of him, but maybe Alan can find him

There is one on the Social Security Death Index who died in Buffalo, New York and was born 27 Apr 1904. If he is the right one, then the engagement must have been broken off, as he died fairly recently (i.e. too recently to mention on the forum)

The other one in the SSDI with a plausible birth date, but who died in Ohio, is not him-- I was able to check that one.

Regards,
Sarah

rita · Post by **rita** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:19 am

Hello Everyone,
Thanks very much Alan for the newspapaper articles it sure helps a lot but I will need to read them further, it's like a whose who.
Well this lot seem to have fared better than the earlier Payne's who came over from Ireland and settled in the Gorbals in Glasgow, a lot of them died in the Poor House and the mens' occupations were either cork-cutters or barbers. We also have actors on my mothers' side as well but never came across any articles on them so that was good to find that information even if they were just amateurs.
Sarah as yet I haven't had time to figure out the others.
I have came across Watsons' marrying into the Payne family before whether the Aunt Margaret married into the same Watsons I don't know yet, Samuels' Grandfather, Georges'2nd marriage was to a Maria Watson (one of Stewies' Lang deid Yins) and the Grandfathers son George married Maria's daughter RoseAnne Watson and then after he died she had a family to his cousin also George.
Will now need to figure out which of the family Margaret and Jane came from, as for WEMYSS Mowat unusual name but never heard of him either.
Great stuff Alan and Sarah.
Alan will send my E-mail.
Thanks a lot.
Rita.

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:38 am

Rita
Yikes! I had all but forgotten this mix of Watson/Paynes

I never did get around to filling in the others, If I recall it was a bit of a nightmare

Must search through my stuff and hope it wasnt lost in one of my computer crashes