KILPATRICK CAITHNESS.....

[DavidWW]

I can only repeat ......... someone must have a look at the original microfilm of the enumeration book, as opposed to relying on the LDS transcription ...............

If the original is clearly "Kilpatrick, Caithness" then a major rethink will be required, but only then

How do the dates of the kids shown as born in a possible Irish Kilpatrick fit in with the marriage of the parents in Ireland, the births of several kiddiewinkies in Ireland, and then a move across the North Channel to Glasgow (but bear in mind that the mother could well have gone back to Ireland for one or more births!!)

David

[JustJean]

Hi again Jay

It appears at least that the Meath part is true. You'll find a marriage for son Joseph easily in Stirling between 1881 and 1891 from which you can obtain his mother's maiden name. Then you can run a parent search on the IGI for Bernard and Mary. While it doesn't prove anything further about the birthplaces of those in question....you will find Mary and Jane and a child that must have died all born in Ireland.

Because there is no immediate sign of any DOUGHTY and spelling variations births of a Joseph, Patrick, or Kate to this couple in Scotland during the era of Statutory Registration I can only surmise that they too were born outwith the country. Especially given the fact we know Bernard and Mary were intentional bout registering the births of 3 of their children while they lived in Meath. Still not proof but certainly signposts that can't be ignored! A note of caution when calculating birth years from their census stated ages. Quite obvious they were lousy at record keeping

Best wishes
Jean

[LesleyB]

Hi Jay
forgot to say (better late than never!) - Welcome to Talking Scot!

You might also find this site useful:
http://www.genuki.org.uk:8080/big/sct/

Best wishes
Lesley

mm

[jaybird]

Wow, thank you for the nteresting discussion.

I shall tell you what I know and perhaps someone has some advice.

Bernard Doughty son of George Doughty and Mary Catherine Corman? marries Mary Lynch daughter of Hugh Lynch and Mary Bell place and date unknown (parent information comes from their death certificates)

All children’s information comes from census, as I cannot find any of their birth records using Scotland’s People Web site.

Children:

1881 Census for Scotland source: Scotland’s People
Source: FHL Film 0203539 GRO Ref Volume 479-1 EnumDist 2 Page 18

I have not looked at the actual film


Bernard Doughty 47 birthplace Kilpatrick, Caithness, Scotland
Mary Doughty wife 45 born Ireland
Joseph Doughty son 21 Kilpatrick Caithness, Scotland
Patrick Doughty son 17 Kilpatrick Caithness Scotland
Kate Doughty daughter 15 Kilpatrick, Caithness, Scotland
Mary Doughty daughter 14 born Ireland
Jane Doughty daughter 13 born Ireland



1871 Census for Scotland
Can’t find this family (searched extensively 07 July 2006) including soundex by first names

1891 Scotland Census
139 High Street
Bernard Doughty head 59 Labourer born in Meath, Ireland
Mary (Lynch) Doughty wife 56 born Meath, Ireland
Children: all born in Ireland
Patrick Doughty son 25 Plate sayer
Kate Doughty daughter 22 Dressmaker
Mary Doughty daughter 21 Dressmaker
Jane Doughty daughter 19 Dressmaker (born in Navan, Meath, Ireland – oral family history)

At 125 High Street
Jos Doughty head 22 Plate Sayer probably son of Bernard and Mary born in Ireland
Jessie wife 21
Betsy 5
Alex 2
James Lyon brother- in-law apprentice coopen


I found a death record for Bernard Doughty 09 Mar 1895 Falkirk, Scotland and Mary Lynch Doughty 12 Jan 1901 in Falkirk, Scotland.


1901 Scotland Census
Unable to find Joseph or Patrick Doughty have not searched for the females

How does one look at the actual film for the 1881 Census for Scotland?
Source: FHL Film 0203539 GRO Ref Volume 479-1 EnumDist 2 Page 18

If anyone has acess to this it would be greatly appreciated if you could have a look to see what the birth place really says.

It had occured to me that Kilpatrick could really be in Ireland, but the enumerater wrote what he thought he heard.

Any help in discovering the real place of birth would be appreciated.

Thanks
Jay

[JustJean]

Hi Jay

Most interesting! The maiden surname I came up with for Mary from the MC of Joseph was CLYNCH and using this you will find the IGI births of Mary, Jane and a baby George all in Westmeath Ireland....and since George was born in 1871 I daresay this is where they were during census time.

Best wishes
Jean

[jaybird]

IGI births of Mary, Jane and a baby George all in Westmeath Ireland..

How did you determine that they were born in Westmeath? I see
George 15 AUG 1871 , Meath, Ireland
Mary Anne 03 JUL 1865 0879, Castletown District, Meath, Ireland
Jane 29 SEP 1867 , Meath, Ireland


I had seen these birth before, but was hesitant to put them into my family tree, because I am not sure that Mary Clynch is the same as my Mary Lynch.

Thanks
Jay

[JustJean]

Hi Jay

You're right it does say Meath!! And to be honest I have no idea why I typed Westmeath! Serves me right for trying to post an answer while rushing out the door....sorry!

As for CLYNCH vs LYNCH I searched for a marriage of Joseph when he didn't appear with the family in 1891 and on his MC his mother's mn is written CLYNCH. There is no absolute proof that this is your family in the IGI...... but in my mind the odds are that it is. Based on Meath being stated as the birthplace on the 1891 census..... based on the names and ages of the two younger daughters... based on George being a family name.... based on their absence from Scotland in 1871...based on no statutory birth registrations for anyone in Scotland....even based on Joseph marrying in the Roman Catholic Church! For further evidence have you examined all the MC's of the other children to see if their mother's MN is given as CLYNCH or LYNCH???? Who was the informant on Mary's DC?? I'm not saying this is 100% certain to be your family. But I'm certainly not willing to discard the notion yet.

Best wishes
Jean

[JustJean]

Note that the BIVRI disks contain only the births for Jane and George but this gives the detail that both births occured in Castletown like the IGI states for Mary Anne...so there is less doubt these 3 births are all to the same family.

DOUGHTY, Jane Birth
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 Sep 1867 Birthplace: 819, Castletown, Meath, Ire
Recorded in: Meath, Ireland
Collection: Civil Registration
Father: Bernard DOUGHTY
Mother: Mary CLYNCH
Source: FHL Film 101156 Dates: 1867 - 1868

DOUGHTY, George Birth
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 15 Aug 1871 Birthplace: 870, Castletown, Meath, Ire
Recorded in: Meath, Ireland
Collection: Civil Registration
Father: Bernard DOUGHTY
Mother: Mary CLINCH
Source: FHL Film 255827 Dates: 1871 - 1872

Best wishes
Jean

[DavidWW]

....snipped .................
At 125 High Street
Jos Doughty head 22 Plate Sayer probably son of Bernard and Mary born in Ireland
Jessie wife 21
Betsy 5
Alex 2
James Lyon brother- in-law apprentice cooper

Look for an 1884 marriage between Joseph DOUGHTY and Jessie LYON, and you'll see that this confirms his parents as Bernard and Mary; and also shows Joseph's mother's surname as CLYNCH

....I found a death record for Bernard Doughty 09 Mar 1895 Falkirk, Scotland and Mary Lynch Doughty 12 Jan 1901 in Falkirk, Scotland.


1901 Scotland Census
Unable to find Joseph or Patrick Doughty have not searched for the females

Search for Jessie DAUGHTY, of appropriate age and you find Joseph, much older that he should be, + 4 kids.

Can't see Patrick, nor is there a death for him, but there is for Patrick, son of Joseph, unfortunately single, but the informant was a brother.

....How does one look at the actual film for the 1881 Census for Scotland?
Source: FHL Film 0203539 GRO Ref Volume 479-1 EnumDist 2 Page 18

If anyone has acess to this it would be greatly appreciated if you could have a look to see what the birth place really says.

The film can be viewed at New Register House in Edinburgh and a number of major libraries and fmaily history society libraries in Scotland; or ordered for viewing at LDS FHCs.

....It had occured to me that Kilpatrick could really be in Ireland, but the enumerater wrote what he thought he heard.

Any help in discovering the real place of birth would be appreciated.

Thanks

While it will be of interest, possibly value, to see what was written in the original enumeration book, I don't think that you now need to worry about Caithness

David
Jay[/quote]

[JustJean]

Just because I have a stubborn streak

All the marriages except for Joseph's state LYNCH

All the kids think they were born in Ireland when given the chance to complete their own census data after marriage. Even Jane goes so far as to think she was born in Meath.

You'll find a death for Patrick in another county at a nice old age outliving his wife....but his first name got indexed as Partick.

Sooooo....really no further along towards total confirmation on the CLYNCH connection...but then again no evidence to the contrary either! This one might just require a leap of faith

Best wishes
Jean