Carbolic acid poisoning?

[ladybird]

I've been thinking about a rellie who's 1875 RCE I have which states..
When and where died.
In a brick kiln or stove at Whiterigg Brickwork in the Parish of New Monkland belonging to William Black & sons.
Supposed poisoning with carbolic acid when lying in the said brick kiln or stove causing death at the time above set.
Thomas Torrance, Surgeon, Airdrie, made a post mortem of body of deceased at Monkland Poorhouse on 3rd March.

Got to wondering whether he actually drank the Carbolic acid or whether he went into the brick kiln to keep warm (this being in March and probably freezing and him being a Traveller) and died from fumes from the acid used to clean the kiln? Did they do that?

The reason I ask re suicide is that basically his whole family had died - wife, all his children but 1. Would the doctor have put suicide on the entry if that had been the case?

Either way not a very nice death, he was only 35!!

Sorry this is probably just a bit of a ramble but I feel so sorry for him!
Sylvia

[sheilajim]

Hi Sylvia

I don't know whether or not it is suicide, but that poor man really had a tragic life.

I wonder what happened to the surviving child. It must have been hard for him/her.

Regards

[ninatoo]

I have a RCE which clearly states that the cause of death was suicide by hanging, so I think it likely that your RCE would say suicide if the powers that be thought so....but I could be wrong of course!

Nina

[Currie]

Hello Sylvia,

Probably an accidental death – This article refers to Lime Kilns but chances are the same situation would apply to Brick Kilns. The two types of Kiln may have been identical or multi purpose?

http://www.limerickslife.com/tragicstories.htm


Lime Kilns

Michael O’Brien had an argument with his mother with whom he lived at 10 Frederick Street in the city. After the argument he left the house and did not return. This was on Wednesday the 1st of April 1897, the next few nights he spent sleeping rough and the following Saturday he went into Hanrahan’s field on the Dock Road, where there were two lime kilns in the field one disused and the other still in use. It was raining very heavy that night so Michael took shelter in the warmth of the lime kiln that was used.

Carbolic acid gas was produced during the making of the lime and during the night this engulfed the man in the kiln. This acid was poisonous and caused the man to become drowsy. Following this he left the kiln to get some air but burnt himself in the process. Then he lay on the ground close to the kiln and fell asleep. The carbolic acid took full effect while he was sleeping causing him to go into a coma and he was found dead the next morning.

In November that year four men were caught and fined for sleeping in the same kiln in Hanrahan’s field.

Another of these lime kiln fatalities took place when William Carroll, who worked as a blacksmith, left his brothers house which he shared, on Saturday night 3rd of June 1899, to go drinking, as he would often do, usually not returning home for days at a time. On his way home this night, he walked towards Gilligan’s limekiln on the Clare road near Ennis, where he climbed in to the kiln to keep himself warm but the fumes from the kiln also overpowered and poisoned him. It was the next morning when his remains were recovered by Joseph Grehan who worked at the kiln. This was the third incident of its kind in this kiln.

Alan

[ladybird]

Thanks folks
At least it looks like accidental death...can't blame a person for trying to keep warm.
I wonder where his daughter was at this time, she would only have been 7 or 8, maybe she was left with her grandparents. She's the one that ended up aged 13 in North Prison in Glasgow (1881) Haven't found her after that and don't know what she was in there for, I hope she married and had a family.
So yes, a tragic family all round
Thanks again, Sylvia

[ASGROOMBRIDGE]

Poor little thing I wonder what she did to end up in prison at the young age of 13.

Audrey

I had a hanging also and the RCE clearly atated suicide.

[SarahND]

Are you sure that she had to do something to get there? I see on the 1881 that her location is listed as Glasgow School for Girls. Wasn't this just a place to put destitute girls to learn a trade? The other girls on the page range from 7 years to 16 years old. Once she was orphaned, I imagine that she was put there as in an orphanage.

All the best,
Sarah

[gordie]

Hi Ladybird,
Your rellie almost certainly died of Carbon Dioxide or Carbon Monoxide poisoning probably both. Hot Combustion gases from a furnace were directed through a brick kiln to "fire" the bricks and the kiln then allowed to cool to remove the bricks. The furnace gases, probably from a coal furnace, would have a high proportion of the above mentioned gases and pockets of the gases would still be present in the cooled furnace without adeqate ventilation and carbon dioxide being heavier than air would be more concentrated at ground level and most dangerous to anyone lying down.
In lime kilns Limestone was roasted to form Quicklime for use in the building industry and Carbon Dioxide was formed in this roasting process
Carbon Dioxide forms Carbonic Acid in the presence of water but it is a very weak acid. Carbon Dioxide present in atmospheric pollution forms this acid with rain hence acid rain.
Carbolic Acid or Phenol as it is now more commonly known as is very different and very nasty stuff indeed, (I used to work with it). It used to be obtained from coal tar but is now produced in the petrochemical industry.
The tragedy remains that your Rellie died just trying to get a shelter for the night.
Regards,
Gordie

[ladybird]

Thank you all
Sarah I'm really not sure about Janet. As you see she was in the Glasgow School for girls but the address is for North Prison. It maybe as you suggest that she was sent there because she was an orphan, but she still had other family alive ie uncles etc. and the Travellers really did look after their own. So...I dunno I'll have to keep looking for a marriage and/or children for her in later years.

Gordie, I knew I should have paid more attention during chemistry...not one of my strong points

hugs all round for making me feel better, Sylvia