Was there an epidemic around 1867?

[LowlanderDaughter]

In looking at the 1871 census for John C Carlisle (my G-G-G-G- Grandfather). He was the "head" 55 and a widower. His son John was 33 and also a widower. Three of John (age 33) children were living in the home along with two other grandchildren to John C, aparently from his daughter's marriages because each has a differnt last name. The wife of John age 33, on her death notice does not say how she died. It only states "The qualified medical attendant." She died on November 19, 1867. Was there a problem specific to Stirling Slammanan where all but John C was born?

Thank you for your help,
Rhonda

[AndrewP]

Hi Rhonda,

I've had a look at Elizabeth Carlisle's death certificate and see that the cause of death box has no medical attendant written there. The two infant deaths on the same page also have no medical attendant in their cause of death information.

I have a large family branch in Slamannan at that time, and an not aware of any epidemic. The no medical attendant may mean that there was no medical attendant available in the area, or that the services of a medical attendant was too expensive for these people. Much of the work in that area was mining or farm labouring, so there was probably quite a lot of people with not much money.

All the best,

AndrewP

[LowlanderDaughter]

Andrew,

Thank you. I wasn't sure of the first word.

Was it normal for there to be so many apparent deaths in the family, causing three family units to live together?

Rhonda

[Ann In the UK]

Maternal and child (under 5) deaths were very common pre the medicalisation of childbirth in the late 19th century. However, improvements in sanitation and hygiene, both in the home and in medical facilities, as well as impoved standards of living overall, have been the major contiributing factors in reducing such deaths, moreso than medical advances or interventions in my humble opinion. Infections like puerperal fever (an infection contracted during or soon after childbirth), probably contributed to most maternal deaths around that time. Such deaths are rare now.

Where infants are concerned, the introduction of largely untested, mass produced infant formula's around the 1870s had a profound effect on infant mortality stats, particularly in poorer households, where good hygiene and sanitation (crucial for making up bottles even today) may not have been possible. Thanks largely to mass marketing, pressure from double dealing medics, and aspirations to be like their wealthier counterparts, poorer women frequently forwent breastfeeding because they believed, or more accurately, were led to belive, it was old fashioned and actually bad for the child and themselves.

Such complications still contribute to the deaths of women and children around the world today, particularly in the developing world, which is why increasing breastfeeding rates (which are constantly being undermined by western drug companies) and improving sanitation and hygiene in these places is seen as such a crucial element in the fight to reduce infant and maternal mortality in these places and elsewhere.

[SarahND]

Three of John (age 33) children were living in the home along with two other grandchildren to John C, aparently from his daughter's marriages because each has a differnt last name.

Hi Rhonda,
Another reason I have seen frequently for a bunch of grandchildren with different surnames is when they are the illegitimate children of one or more of the daughters. So no death would need to have occurred. I believe this is the case in your family also, if I am looking at the correct census (it's the Ancestry transcription, so there may be mistakes...). Often the birth record will have these children under the mother's surname and they take the father's surname later. Looking in the IGI for Slamannan:

The granddaughter called Ellen Newton was born Helen Jamieson Carlisle
Mother: Agnes Carlisle, no father's name given
29 Apr 1866 Slamannan

The granddaughter called Ellene Mungall was recorded Helen Carlisle
Mother: Elizabeth Carlisle, no father's name given
26 Oct 1869 Slamannan

All the best,
Sarah

[LowlanderDaughter]

Sarah,

When you spoke of illegitamate children, I think this is the case with my G-Grandfather John Carlisle, born March 16, 1860. I think he was born with a different name, but I have not been able to find out what it was.

Have a good day,
Rhonda

[SarahND]

Rhonda,
Did you ever download the birth record that Annette found on your other topic?

http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=104006

We were all convinced it was the correct one.

All the best,
Sarah

[ROY M]

Hi Rhonda
It might be worth checking for a Cholera outbreak in the area. Scotland was on the tail-end of a cholera epidemic at this time. I helped a friend with her tree and in the end of 1866 fourteen members of one of her families died in an outbreak in Fife.

[LowlanderDaughter]

Sarah and Annette,

When I first started to use TalkingScot I didn't know how to go back into the web site to read your responses from my first post "John G Carlisle - where was he born?" I'm so sorry.

Given that the date of birth for Alexander Brown Carzile Erskine is 16 Mar 1860 this must be my Great Grandfather, Yeah! After I sent the first post I found out his middle name "G" is for Gardner, his wife's maiden name.

This is really interesting. On the 1871 census there is an Alexander Carlisle who is the grandson to John C Carlisle (head age 55), younger brother to John G Carlisle. The birth registry shows Alexnder being born on 2 Jan 1864. So my Great Grandfather had a huge name when he was born, then when his parents John Carlisle and Elizabeth Erskine got married they changed his name. All of the first born boys in the Carlisle family (other families too?) are named John, so this is why John became his first name. The census said he was born in Stirling Slamannan along with everyone else, except for John age 55, yet he was actually born in Polmont Stirling. I guess it was easier to tell the person collecting the information for the census that they were all born in the same place. Am I right on how and why my great grandfather's name was changed?

Roy,
Thank you for the information on the Cholrea outbreak in 1866.

Best Wishes,
Rhonda

[SarahND]

Hi Rhonda,
Glad you finally got back to read the other post! As long as the box is ticked "Notify me when a reply is posted" when you post yourself, you should get an email notifying you that someone has replied, with a link to the topic. Sometimes, for whatever reason, this doesn't work and people periodically complain that they are not getting reply notification, but usually it does.

Was there any note on the birth registration that his name had been changed? Or an addition of the father's name via RCE (Register of Corrected Entries) stamp in the left margin? There might not have been, but it would certainly make the whole thing clear! My grandmother's name was changed when her mother died a year after her birth-- she was given her mother's name at that point. But no official indication of such on the birth record.

Am I right on how and why my great grandfather's name was changed?

It certainly sounds plausible!

All the best,
Sarah