KILPATRICK CAITHNESS.....

[jaybird]

Hello
I am new here. On the 1881 Scotland census it say the birthplace of several of my ancestors was Kilpatrick, Caithness, Scotland.
Joseph DOUGHTY 1860
Kate DOUGHTY 1866
Patrick DOUGHTY 1864

I have been trying to locate Kilpatrick Caithness on many maps and I have not located it yet. I fould Old Kilpatrick as well as the County(?) of Caithness, but they don't seem to be together.

I would appreciate if someone could please help me with a geography lesson of Scotland. I am quite confused about these places and look forward to understanding Scottish geography better.

Many thanks
Jay

[DavidWW]

Jay

Welcome to TalkingScot.

On the 1881 census entry you'll note that several of the household were born in Irleand. The 1881 transcriptions are nototious for some unusual transcriptions of placenames.

In other words, before putting faith in a placename such as this, best to have a look at other censuses on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk , and, in 1891 you'll find that the father Bernard, son Patrick and daughter Kate are shown with places of birth different from Caithness or Kilpatrick

David


mm

[jaybird]

Thanks for the reply. You are correct that depending on which census I look at their birth place changes.

However, I would still be interested to learn a bit of the geography of Scotland. So if anyone can explain to me where Kilpatrick and Caithness are and whether they are cities, towns, parishes, counties or what have you I would be still interested in learning about them.

Thanks
Jay

[DavidWW]

Thanks for the reply. You are correct that depending on which census I look at their birth place changes.

However, I would still be interested to learn a bit of the geography of Scotland. So if anyone can explain to me where Kilpatrick and Caithness are and whether they are cities, towns, parishes, counties or what have you I would be still interested in learning about them.

Thanks
Jay

There is no Kilpatrick that I can find in Caithness, nor anything like it, - the only ones in Scotland being that which you have found already in Dunbartonshire, plus another one in Argyll .[later edit, - actually Arran in the county of Bute!!]

What doesn't make geographical sense in this case is a family moving from Ireland to Glasgow, but then also spending time several hundred miles away at the very north of Scotland. Not impossible, I'll admit, but I'm not seeing an occupation that would fit that scenario.

Lastly, I'd want to check the 1881 microfilm before believing the transcription.

David

[LesleyB]

Hi Jaybird

So if anyone can explain to me where Kilpatrick and Caithness are and whether they are cities, towns, parishes, counties or what have you I would be still interested in learning about them.

Caithness is a county in the very north of Scotland. There were two "Kilpatrick" parishes in Dunbartonshrire: Old, or west, Kilpatrick and New, or east, Kilpatrick (next door to each other). I can also see a town called Kilpatrick in North Ayrshire on www.mappy.co.uk

Best wishes
Lesley


mm

[DavidWW]

Hi Jaybird

So if anyone can explain to me where Kilpatrick and Caithness are and whether they are cities, towns, parishes, counties or what have you I would be still interested in learning about them.

Caithness is a county in the very north of Scotland. There were two "Kilpatrick" parishes in Dunbartonshrire: Old, or west, Kilpatrick and New, or east, Kilpatrick (next door to each other). I can also see a town called Kilpatrick in North Ayrshire on www.mappy.co.uk

Best wishes
Lesley

That might well be the current North Ayrshire local government authority, but we'd all know this location better as the Isle of Arran in the "traditional" county of Bute (and not Argyll as I wrote earlier ), and not the north of the "traditional" county of Ayr

David

[LesleyB]

Hi David
The one I found in North Ayrshire on "mappy" is on Arran - so perhaps this reflects modern boundaries, rather than those we usually work with (!) or maybe "mappy" has just got it wrong? Not an area I'm very familiar with.

Best wishes
Lesley

[AndrewP]

Hi Lesley,

On looking at www.streetmap.co.uk it agrees Arran is in North Ayrshire nowadays - presumably since the Unitary Councils came about in 1997. So, you are right, not the counties we are used to in the genealogy game.

All the best,

AndrewP
at Changi Airport, Singapore


mm

[DavidWW]

Hi David
The one I found in North Ayrshire on "mappy" is on Arran - so perhaps this reflects modern boundaries, rather than those we usually work with (!) or maybe "mappy" has just got it wrong? Not an area I'm very familiar with.

Best wishes
Lesley

It was never in Ayrshire previously, - that from an Ayrshire lad , - but a quick web check shows that both the Cumbraes and Arran are now part of N. Ayrshire, to my surprise , as I'd have thought that Arran would have been a better fit with Argyll. The Cumbraes, - hmmmmm...... debatable, as the main ferry connection is the very short distance across Fairlie Roads to Largs

Historically, Arran was part of the county of Bute, up until, I'd guess, the formation of the regional authorities in 1976 when it became part of Strathclyde. I also have the memory that at some part of its history it was part of Argyll...............

David

[JustJean]

Hi folks

Well Jay.....now you see you're learning a great deal on what is and what isn't in Scotland. But I can't help but truly wonder if what you wish you knew most is where your family really came from?? You see I have serious doubts that it was Caithness too.....I mean if you examine the birthplaces in 1881 they would have done some serious hopping about to half be born in Ireland and half in an unfindable Kilpatrick located in the county of Caithness. I'm leaning towards the birthplaces named on the 1891 census which agree all were from County Meath Ireland. So how do you get Meath from Kilpatrick????? or Meath from Caithness??? I'm suggesting that the DOUGHTY family may have been from Kilpatrick afterall! Just maybe they were from Kilpatrick found in Westmeath 5 miles SE of Castlepollard in Ireland. Or there are at least another 4 or 5 Kilpatricks in Ireland....(just none listed in Meath). It's simply a theory but one that might hold more possibilty than what you read on the 1881 census.

For geography clues it's best to find yourself a Gazetteer and a good set of maps. A google search will usually come up with amazing sources right on the internet. When I first started learning my way around Scotland, Ireland and England (and I still have to look to see where lots of places are !!) I spent the big bucks to pick up a well preserved Bartholomew's Gazetteer through Abebooks. I've never been sorry for the expenditure!!

Best wishes
Jean