Tracey wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shire
This should help explain the understanding of "Shires"
As for the certificates i usually put what is on the actual entry, at the end of the day its only me that has to understand it
Severe
![[rant]](./images/smilies/rant.gif "Rant")
warning ............
The above is a Wikipedia entry, which means that the info is someone's opinion, and not established fact.
I'd comment as follows on this Wikipedia entry.
The term "shire" is purely English and distinctly non-Scottish in a historical sense.
Non-county shires were very common in Scotland. Kinross-shire and Clackmannanshire are probably survivals from such districts.
Both Kinross and Clackmannan are ancient names for the districts concerned which are among the relatively few to survive to the present day in terms of use as local government areas at the top levels. Mar and other similarly ancient area names are still in widespread use, sometimes at a lower level of local government organisation, sometimes just in a local geographical sense.
In Scotland the term shire county is unknown, and the use of shire to refer to sheriffdoms or counties was intermittent, dating largely from the 19th century. It may be seen as an anglification or an example of the power of analogy. The traditional names, insofar as this is a reasonable term to employ, omit the suffix -shire.
Largely correct and the key to the whole situation, except that I'd write "the use of shire was extremely rare in Scotland by Scots prior to the 18th century".
Aberdeenshire, Ayrshire, Banffshire, Berwickshire, Clackmannanshire, Cromartyshire, Dumfriesshire, Dunbartonshire, Fifeshire, Inverness-shire, Kincardineshire, Kinross-shire, Kirkcudbrightshire, Lanarkshire, Morayshire, Nairnshire, Peeblesshire, Perthshire, Renfrewshire, Ross-shire, Roxburghshire, Selkirkshire, Stirlingshire, Wigtownshire
This is modern usage only, - but "modern" in the sense of since the late 1700s, and early 1800s, when it became highly fashionable, among the upper level of Scots society, especially in Edinburgh, to anglify many aspects of Scottish life, including replacing guid Scots with English, - elecutionists were imported to Edinburgh from London to teach folk how to speak proper
, - seriously !!
In Scotland four counties have alternative names with the "shire" suffix: Angus (Forfarshire), East Lothian (Haddingtonshire), Midlothian (Edinburghshire) and West Lothian (Linlithgowshire).
There were actually five, - Elginshire for Moray. Some would argue that Shetland for Zetland should be a sixth, since the spelling change took place around the same time.
These "new" county names arose from the decision of the civil servants in Edinburgh and London to follow the English pattern (but don't get into arguments with Devonians and folk from many other English counties! - see below) of taking the name of the county town, and adding "shire" as being the "correct" way to refer to the county.
Somehow it seems to have become the modern belief among many that these 5 alternative county names, in use for little more than a century, were the "traditional" county names. They were not and had never been.
Sutherland is occasionally still referred to as Sutherlandshire, despite there being no town called Sutherland. Similarly, Argyllshire, Buteshire and Caithness-shire are sometimes found. Also, Morayshire was previously called Elginshire.
These are legacies from the same era, i.e. take the traditional county name and stick on "shire" at the end.
Buteshire
, an absolute anathema, however much, like Argyllshire, Sutherlandshire, Caithness-shire, and some others it came into such widespread general use so that many folk believe that these are the correct terms, instead of the Isle of Bute, Argyl[l], Sutherland and Caithness.
Although a number of these 18th/19th centuries changes have since been perpetuated in terms of what is regarded as accepted modern usage, I wouldn't recommend a visit to the Kingdom of Fife (historically a thanedom, so effectively the area ruled by a minor Pictish/Celtic king) and calling it Fifeshire ..........
Incidentally, if "shire" was a Southern English concept how come there's Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset, Sussex, Surrey, Kent, Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk, Middlesex, Rutland, plus the more northern Durham, Northumberland and Cumberland
(Have I missed any
)
Just where have I missed the usage Cornwallshire, Devonshire, Somersetshire, Dorsetshire, Sussexshire, Surreyshire, Kentshire, Essexshire, Suffolkshire, Norfolkshire, Middlesexshire, Rutlandshire, plus the more northern Durhamshire, Northumberlandshire and Cumberlandshire
Come to that, when I think about it, why is there the expression "The Home Counties" instead of "The Home Shires"
. As the saying goes, get out of that one
over but, Oh Boy
...
![[soapbox]](./images/smilies/soapbox.gif "SoapBox")
... did I enjoy that !!
Coming back to the practicalities of Sarah's question, in terms of her example of an event in Mar around 1600, all that I would comment, is that the event should be referred to as was correct for the era in terms of location, but that, for correct understanding in modern terms, today's equivalent location should be given, along, perhaps with a map such as that referred to by Andrew.
See also
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-922 , apologies for the faintness. Note the complete absence of Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, Aberdeenshire, and a few others
I'd be surprised if the parish name wasn't recognisable, although perhaps only as what is now part of a combined parish, e.g. Tarland instead of the later combined parish of Tarland and Migvie. There are many such amalgamated quoad sacra parishes.
David
PS Just what did the Irish have that the Scots missed out on to end up with the expression Co. Antrim, and so on
dww
) they can immediately understand where we are talking about. To try to explain from the outset that the place/parish/county name has changed 7 times over the last hundred or so years merely confuses and their attention is lost before you have even explained the importance of why g-Aunt Jean moved from A to B.
)![[5 cups]](./images/smilies/sm-5cups.gif "[5 cups]"){kind=small}