Looking for Descendants of John Sutherland Robertson

[SarahND]

Hi Jenn,
Welcome to Talking Scot!
Do you have your grandfather's 1934 marriage certificate? It should say what happened to his first marriage, i.e. death or divorce. One of the two had to happen, or he couldn't have got married again (this is assuming there was a genuine marriage with Barbara Ann Johnston!). Once you find out whether he was widowed or divorced, you can look for the appropriate record. As far as I understand, all those records are openly available in the state of Massachusetts.

Good luck!
Sarah

[JMRobertson]

I have tried to look for the marriage record. No one is sure that they married in MA. My grandmother's father was from Nova Scotia, and there was a rumor that they married there. BUT, she was born in NJ. So I pretty much have the part of the East coast to look at. My uncle, my dad's older brother has family information but doesn't indend on sharing. I know there is a family secret that he is hiding, and I would like to know. He says that we shouldn't pursue our Robertson heritage based on that we wouldn't be welcomed by the family in Scotland. I dont' believe that, regardless of what the secret is, I am a Robertson and I am proud of my Scottish heritage. SO, with that, no, I don't have a 1934 marriage record for the 2nd marriage.

Sorry for the long winded response.

[SarahND]

He says that we shouldn't pursue our Robertson heritage based on that we wouldn't be welcomed by the family in Scotland.

That sounds like he knows there is recent family in Scotland So perhaps Barbara Ann went back with the two children and they were brought up there. As to why they wouldn't welcome you... that sounds like whatever happened was the fault of your grandfather, or could be perceived as such. k
But don't believe a word about not being welcomed. I had a similar situation with my mother's family and they were thrilled to find unknown relatives suddenly appearing out of nowhere! All those things that were shameful and had to be hushed up just a few years ago are now not such a big deal to most people. It's quite possible that he never married for the second time. I remember another thread on this forum where the husband went to America and the wife decided she didn't want to so stayed in Scotland with the children. He eventually "married" someone else-- although his wife was still alive. It happens.
I certainly understand why you're intrigued! It's a shame your uncle won't tell But I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it one day

All the best,
Sarah

[JMRobertson]

Now you can see why I am looking for the Descendants of John S. Robertson! Yes, we thought that perhaps the 2nd marriage wasn't legal, until a divorce from wife 1 was finalized. That would explain some of the weird comments from uncle.

At some point, my grandfather and uncle went back to Scotland, between 1965-1972. I don't know the details, but I'm going to say that he probably met some of the family and maybe didnt' like them right away. Not sure. Uncle does not speak of trip to Scotland that he took with grandfather, even has pictures. But he won't share them. Now, I am sure, as he has two daughters and now 3 grandchildren, that he is probably sharing all that information wiht them. I am not afraid to ask the questions that might raise the eyebrows

I had been in contact with a woman from Orkney who stated that John Douglas Davidson Robertson died in 1968, and is buried in Orkney. Don't have any more details. It is believed that Barbara Ann did go back to Scotland to raise her children. I can also see why the family might have been harse towards uncle, as he would have had the, how to I say, the honor of having his father with him all through adult hood and the two older children did not. There could be resentment from family that knew he was in America, but couldn't or didn't have contact with my grandfather.

ALso in 1956, my father met his half sister, Isabella. She was either on her way HOME to Canada, or going to Canada for a trip. Not sure which. While visiting, and my dad met her, their father took her out to dinner and that was the last time he heard from her or anything of her. 52 yrs later, we're not sure if she is alive or not.

Regardless of what the secret is, I am hoping that TalkingScot will help with finding out the Older family information and I'll just go that route and maybe come back around to the Newer information when the time comes.

I am actually going to ask my father if he knows when and where his parents married. He might know more than he is telling and not realizing it.

[SarahND]

The death the woman told you about certainly looks like it is there on SP. You'd need to go to Edinburgh or Glasgow to look at the certificate, since it is too recent...

I see on this page of Genuki:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/OKI/famhist.html#R

That there is someone from Canada who is researching Robertsons of Walls & Flotta. Is this someone you have already contacted?

I'm sure we can all understand why you keep trying to get to the bottom of this fascinating puzzle! We're all fellow obsessed family researchers here

All the best,
Sarah

[SarahND]

To help with moving backward, here's James and Betsy and wee James in 1851. Looks like none of his siblings survived, if he had any, or else they were elsewhere on census night:

1851
Burwes Town, Walls and Flotta, Orkney
James Robertson, 37, Head, born Walls & F, Orkney, Far of 4 Ac
Betsy Robertson, 38, Wife, born Walls & F, Orkney
James Robertson, 9, Son, born Walls & F, Orkney
John Fiddler, 13, Servant, born Walls & F, Orkney, Cow Herd

Could this be James in 1861? No sign of his parents

1861
Main St S End, Stromness, Orkney
George Hackland, 32, Head, born Sandwick, Orkney, Cooper
Maria S Hackland, 31, Wife, born Walls, Orkney, Cooper Wife
George Hackland, 10, Son, born Walls, Orkney, Scholar
Maria S Hackland, 3, Daughter, born Stromness, Orkney
James Hackland, 14 Mo, Son, born Stromness, Orkney
William T Hackland, 4 Mo, Son, born Stromness, Orkney
Betsey Thompson, 27, Servant, born Walls, Orkney, Domestic Servant
James Robertson, 19, Boarder, born Walls, Orkney, Boat Carpenter

I see the parents James and Betsy are back in Walls in 1871 with James and Jane and the grandchildren living with them. So you should be able to get the parents' death certificates with their parents' names on them and keep on going...

Regards,
Sarah

[JMRobertson]

The death the woman told you about certainly looks like it is there on SP. You'd need to go to Edinburgh or Glasgow to look at the certificate, since it is too recent...

I see on this page of Genuki:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/OKI/famhist.html#R

That there is someone from Canada who is researching Robertsons of Walls & Flotta. Is this someone you have already contacted?

I'm sure we can all understand why you keep trying to get to the bottom of this fascinating puzzle! We're all fellow obsessed family researchers here

All the best,
Sarah

Hi Sarah,

I had not gone to that site yet, so I wasn't aware of anyone searching from Canada. I will inuire. Thankyou.

[JMRobertson]

To help with moving backward, here's James and Betsy and wee James in 1851. Looks like none of his siblings survived, if he had any, or else they were elsewhere on census night:

1851
Burwes Town, Walls and Flotta, Orkney
James Robertson, 37, Head, born Walls & F, Orkney, Far of 4 Ac
Betsy Robertson, 38, Wife, born Walls & F, Orkney
James Robertson, 9, Son, born Walls & F, Orkney
John Fiddler, 13, Servant, born Walls & F, Orkney, Cow Herd

Could this be James in 1861? No sign of his parents

1861
Main St S End, Stromness, Orkney
George Hackland, 32, Head, born Sandwick, Orkney, Cooper
Maria S Hackland, 31, Wife, born Walls, Orkney, Cooper Wife
George Hackland, 10, Son, born Walls, Orkney, Scholar
Maria S Hackland, 3, Daughter, born Stromness, Orkney
James Hackland, 14 Mo, Son, born Stromness, Orkney
William T Hackland, 4 Mo, Son, born Stromness, Orkney
Betsey Thompson, 27, Servant, born Walls, Orkney, Domestic Servant
James Robertson, 19, Boarder, born Walls, Orkney, Boat Carpenter

I see the parents James and Betsy are back in Walls in 1871 with James and Jane and the grandchildren living with them. So you should be able to get the parents' death certificates with their parents' names on them and keep on going...

Regards,
Sarah

It does look like they are back in Walls, but were tehre other children. How do you know there are grandchildren living with them? What would there names be and who their child to get married and have children? If they only had one child, then it would be James Cromarty Robertson and wife Jean Sutherland. Then were is James and William Sutherland Robertson and I have also found a Helen Sutherland Robertson as well for their children, of James C. and Jean Sutherland Robertson.

Just another path to travel right?

[SarahND]

How do you know there are grandchildren living with them? What would there names be and who their child to get married and have children? If they only had one child, then it would be James Cromarty Robertson and wife Jean Sutherland. Then were is James and William Sutherland Robertson and I have also found a Helen Sutherland Robertson as well for their children, of James C. and Jean Sutherland Robertson.

That was meant to be a wee hint to get you scrambling for the credit card to check the 1871 on Scotland's People
I know there are grandchildren because there are people in the household called grandchildren, James' children...

1871
Myre, Flotta, Orkney
James Robertson, 58, Head, born Walls, Orkney, Farmer
Betsy Robertson, 51, Wife, born Walls, Orkney
James Robertson, 30, Son, born Walls, Orkney, Carpenter (boat)
Jane Robertson, 30, Daughter-in-law, Carpenter (boat) wife
William Sutherland, 13, Servant, born Flotta, Orkney, Servant
William Robertson, 4, Grandson, born Walls, Orkney
James Robertson, 3, Grandson, born Flotta, Orkney

The other children you found born for that couple may well not have survived-- unless you have evidence that they did?

James and Betsy are still in Walls in 1881, with Betsy's sister Margaret Cromarty and grandchildren James and Elizabeth.

By 1891 Betsy is head of household, so that gives you a window to search for James Sr's death. Jean Sutherland's mother is also there, plus more of James Jr and Jean's children. I'm beginning to get confused by them all I suggest you download all the censuses, put on some soothing music, and try to make it all hold together The Ancestry.com transcription has some errors (a "niece" aged 71 and a "scholar? ) and has lumped two households into one so I no longer know what to think You're going to have to download that one and have a look at the original.

By 1901 Betsy has died and Uncle James Cromarty, pauper, has joined the household So Betsy's death should be findable between 1891 and 1901. Now I feel like we are getting too many James Robertsons Four generations of them are making my head spin. The household I just found is next door to the one with your grandfather and his brothers.

Lots of fascinating material to look at-- lucky you!

All the best,
Sarah

[JMRobertson]

I think it's time to break out the Whiskey! This is too much! Thankyou for your efforts! I will be sitting down at computer this evening after child goes to bed and go over these census records!

Have cc memorized! Just have to keep eye on clock so that I don't miss child's bus while looking.....


Thankyou again for your help! 4 Generations??!! Wow! So glad that my grandfather wasn't James, that would be even more confusing!

As it is, with my grandfather, had son John, who had son John III, then my sister married a John, had a son John, had 3 cousins named John on mother's side of family AND 2 great Uncles in Oregon named John.

Thankyou again. Have lots of reading to do now!