Scott ancestors

[elaine w]

Hi Anne,

Sorry to bother you again but I've got a feeling of deja vu here!! I've just gone through my notes and been searching for a John Scott born 1869 Sunderland district and there is only one. I have previously sent away for this one and it was rejected by the GRO as I said it should have father's name as James Scott. There are no other John Scott's born S/land area in 1869 apart from an Ernest John and I know that is not correct. Help??

John Scott was 24yrs of age on his marriage cert to Annie - 1893. Therefore he must have been born 1869. I found 10a 564 Jul/Aug S/land area and this is the one which was rejected.

What do I do now?

Elaine

[AnneM]

Hi Elaine

There is also a John Russell and a John William both born in 1869 in Sunderland on FreeBMD. Ages on marriage certificates are not always 100% correct and there is a John Scott born in Sunderland in 1868.

This is a difficult one and needs some time to mull over.

Anne

[sheilajim]

Hi Elaine,

I am not sure where the Sunderland District is, but I was wondering if you have tried looking for your relatives on Scotland's People. You could try looking for their Death Certs there. They usually have a lot of info on them. I also have Scotts in my family tree. It is a common name, but not as common as the McDonalds.

Regards

[Andrew C.]

Probably wrong to stick my oar in however i will anyway. I had a look on Freecen and there is a Robert and Elizabeth Scott agaed 55 and 50 respectively in Montrose in 1841. They have two children also on the census Catherine (20) and David (15). They are living in Market Street in what must be a hotel/Thearter/pub (Robert is registered as a Vintner) as there is an assortment of Musicians, Actresses and Comedians under the roof.

It might be a coincidence but I thought names, ages and place seemed to correspond.

[Andrew C.]

Looking at Elaine's post again, I think I am with Anne in that the parents have died and the youngster may have been brought up by her Auntie Catherine although my last post may be a complete red hearing.

[AnneM]

Dear Elaine

I'm beginning to be convinced here and am sorry I doubted your info. It's just the lawyer in me that needs a lot of evidence to be convinced.

What is swinging it for me is the 1871 census. I finally did what I should have thought of earlier (it's amazing how looking at something earlier in the day helps) and looked for the marriage of James and Christina and also to see what children they had in Scotland. Now Elizabeth was born in Montrose in 1863 and lo and behold it looks as though she is in Southwick with a family called Fairley in 1871 as a visitor.

Where Elizabeth is the rest of the family cannot be too far away so I looked a bit more and here appears to be Christina and the other children in 1871 in Bishop Wearmonth. Christina appears as Christiana. Do you have a note of this census entry or do you need one? I do note that John appears as born in England and it does not specify Sunderland so I wonder if he was born somewhere else and the family then moved there. Christiana seems to be noted as a widow though it's not too clear.

I'll have a look at FreeBMD and see if I can find a likely death for James. Also have a dekko for the 1881 census for the family though you may have that already. I still think that to be sure we need John b 1868/9's birth certificate but I'm beginning to see how you got to where you are now.

BTW I think Andrew is right and that is your family in 1841. Just as I was coming down in the car this afternoon I heard someone mention the Irish Famine on the radio and that was in 1847/8. I wonder if that had anything to do with young James being with his grandparents by 1851. I had a quick look for a will for Robert on SP but did not see anything. I'll have another squint now to see if I missed anything as that would be a very helpful thing to have.

Anne

BTW I take it you have your grandfather's birth certificate just to be sure you have the right parents for him!

[AnneM]

Hi again Elaine

Do you have the family on the 1881 census? By this stage Christina has remarried a Thomas Jackson, a blacksmith and Elizabeth, James and John are still with the family. Note that John is given as 13 so I think you may need to broaden your search over a couple of years for his BC. Maybe he was born in 1868. If you need the details of the census let me know.

I looked on FreeBMD but could not see a likely death in that area for James senior, nor did I see one in Scotland. It seems to me possible that James died in another part of the country, though this is not necessarily the case. Has anyone on the English website come up with any suggestions for you on a death for James?

I can't find a will for Robert and it seems to me likely that he died before 1855. Maybe if you contact Angus council they could give you details of where he is buried. He seems likely to have died between 1851 and 1855.

Will see if I see a likely birth for him. He is stated on the 1851 census as born in Brechin is he not?

Anne

Can't say I can see a birth for him but I am more convinced that Andrew has the right family in 1841 by the presence of a David as a witness at James's wedding is David Scott.

[AnneM]

Hi

Here we go again. Elizabeth and Robert seem to have been married in Montrose in 1808. It may be worth a look at the marriage just to check if it gives any further information, however unlikely that may be.

They had the following children:

William Scott 17th July 1810
James Scott 18th March 1812
Robert Scott 4th August 1814
Henry Scott 12th September 1816
John Scott 19th May 1822
David Scott 8th February 1824
Thomas Scott 23rd April 1826

All of these are in Montrose. You might want to view some of the images to confirm to yourself that you have the right family.

The girls who include Catherine and Helen seem to be missing from SP.

Elizabeth's death certificate should give you her parents. At present I can't see a birth for her. However there is a death for a Scott/Duncan female born at around that time on SP. I'm just trying to restrain myself from topping up my credits again.

I'm not sure you're much further on than you were but at least you have a few more rellies to follow up.

Anne

[elaine w]

Hi folks,

Sorry I've not managed to get on here for a few days as been busy. Thanks ever so much to everyone for trying to help me.

Yes Andrew I think you have the correct family, I have most of the census for Eliz/Rob and Catherine Scott. Robert was born in Brechin, I tried looking on Scotlands People but couldn't find his or his wife's birth yet I saw the marriage bann. Don't know what I do wrong when I'm trying to trace people - probably my inexperience!! I didn't know Catherine was with the Fairley family on the 1871 census so will check that out.

Anne, I do have my grandfather's birth certificate.

What is still puzzling me is this Bridget Scott?? It states on James and Christina's marriage certificate that the parents of James Jnr were - James Scott Snr (decd) he was a seaman by the way. And Bridget Scott, it looks like her maiden name was M L Maidson but it's difficult to read. So where I thought before that Catherine had changed her name do you all now think this might be Auntie Cath and that Bridget died? I'm confused I can't find any birth record for Bridget though??

I'm glad you are more convinced Anne. I've ordered x 2 birth certs for John Scott for 1868. They are both S/land area and just named John Scott no middle names as he is referred to as just John in all the census's. Lets hope I hit on the correct one this time.

Thanks again for all your help. I am thinking of going to my local Family History Centre and ordering the parish records and seamens crewlists for Montrose, Angus. Just thought it might be worth trawling through to see what, if anything, I find.

All the best,
Elaine.

[elaine w]

Hi Anne again,

Sorry I forgot to say I have the 1881 census for Christina Jackson, this is when she had remarried to Thomas Jackson. It states the boys James and John were born in SUNDERLAND, and Elizabeth their sister born in Scotland. So hopefully the birth certs I've ordered may be correct just needed to try another year!

Just contact me again if you need to ask anymore questions. I appreciate your help.

Thanks.

Elaine.