The elusive Janet/Jessie Simpson

[garibaldired]

If they act quickly a cert or two can still be obtained at the "cheap price" even!!!

Indeed! 25 days and counting.........

Best wishes,
Meg

[ggrocott]

I was struggling to buy the certificates I wanted/needed before the latest price rise!

[bolemo]

Anything new on that case?

I am going into that discussion from the great grandfather of my wife: Thomas Simpson (born bef 03/1845, Sunderland), son of George Simpson and Susannah.
I know quite a lot about Thomas, found him in all censuses until 1901. After that, I don't know what happened to him.

About his parents, I know little about George Simpson: he was born about 1816 in Sheffield, Yorkshire, and died between 1851 and 1871. He was in Consett, Lanchester, Durham in 1851, with his wife Susannah and a bunch of children (Jessy, F, 15 from Scotland; Hannah, F, 13 from Walker, Northumberland; Mary, F, 11 from Sunderland, Durham; Rebecca, F, 9 from Sunderland; Thomas, M, 7 from Sunderland; James, M, 5 from Sunderland; John, M, 2 from Sunderland; Joseph, M, 1mo from Consett, Durham). Could not find him for sure before or after that 1851 census.

Thomas mother, the wife of George, was Susannah; I do know more than him about her. I don't know her maiden name. She was born in Scotland, most likely Dumbarton about 1820.
In 1851, she was in Consett, with George and children.
In 1861, she is still in Consett, married, but showing as the head of the household; George is nowhere to be found. Jessy is not there anymore (but if she is the one you are talking about on this discussion, she is then about to be married to Mr Blair), Hannah is not here either (could not find her after 1851). Mary is there, now 22; Rebecca is not there, but I found her in another Consett household as a servant. There is an Elizh (Elizabeth I suppose), F, 18 listed as Daughter, not showing before or after. Then come Thomas, 18; James is not there, John is there, Joseph is not there, and we have now Henry, M, 7 born in Consett and a new James, M, 16m born in Consett.
In 1871, Susannah is now in Harrowgate Hill, Cockerton, Darlington, Durham. She is now listed as a widow, and is the head. The only children living there are Rebecca (who is back), John and Harry (Henry I think). There is also a James, M, 1 who is a grandson, but cannot figure his parents for sure (he is not John's, but think he is Henry's). In 1871 Thomas is living in Stockton with his first wife, Margaret Hare née Ferguson, her son from her late first husband, and their child Jessie (named after his elder/favorite Sister?).
In 1881, Susannah is now living at her son John's, in Houghton-le-Spring, Durham. John is married to Jane (from Carrs Hill), with a son: John William, 1 born in Houghton-le-Spring. Henry is living with his brother, and the young James, now 11 is still there, as John's nephew. In 1881, Thomas is living in Tottenham with his second wife Barbara Jane Henderson (first wife died); If Jessy/Janet is the right one, then he might have gone in Tottenham closer to his elder sister. Later he will live in Kings Norton, Worcestershire.
In 1891, Susannah is still living at her son John's, now in Heworth, Gateshead, Durham. John's wife Jane, as well as kid John William, brother Harry and nephew James are still in the household.
Susannah died most likely there, a few month after the census, during the last quarter of 1891, at the age of 71.

Now I don't think the George found in the Whitworth 1861 census is the right one, because who's uncle is he? Mary's? But her birthplace does not match our George's Mary's.
The 1841 census in Walker though is interesting: George info is matching. Isabella is matching Susannah's info except obviously the first name… Could Isabella be a first wife? Or just be Susannah?? Janet could be Jessy, info is almost matching except the first name. Hannah is also almost matching (birth year is not perfect, but possible). Now, if this census is correct: who is Isabella? Where is Mary who was born about 1840 in Sunderland? Unless they moved to Sunderland just after the census and she was born in 1841.

We are apparently several working on that family, and if anyone has more information, I would be interested. Thank you.

[StewL]

Hello Bolemo

Even though this is an older post, we don't like to think that posts are too old.
I hope the information you provided prompts one of the contributors to reply

[ggrocott]

Hmm, well I am still looking for Janet/Jessie.

Trouble is being sure which one is her. I have found one, Janet Simpson, British Subject age 17, servant at Castle Eden which could be my girl in 1851 as well as the George and Susannah one and I have found a Janet Simpson age 7 in 1841 in Bonhill Dunbartonshire with Jean age 25 and John age 2, these may, or may not be the same young lady and may or may not be the one I am looking for. At the moment I have this, 'on the back burner' due to lack of evidence! Have so far failed to find a baptism that ties with parents Jean and George or Susanna and George plus daughter Janet/Jessie at the right time and place.

[ggrocott]

OK, I have been looking for George Simpson born 1817, Sheffield.

The next gentleman who could fit the bill, in 1871 is a publican at The White Lion, with wife Hannah and daughter Emma age 13 back in Sheffield. He also appears in Sheffield in 1881 and 1891 but making shoes, still with Hannah. However, I have found another George Simpson in 1861 who I think is the 1871 publican.

[bolemo]

About George Simpson, I believe he deceased between 1851 and 1871.
• In 1841, he is in Walker, Longbenton, with his wife Isabella/Susannah, and children Janet/Jessy and Hannah.
• Not long after that census, they moved to Sunderland (I believe Bishopwearmouth), where they will have more kids: Mary, Rebecca, Elizabeth, Thomas, James and John.
• In 1851, they moved to Consett, Durham, Susannah is there, with Jessy, Hannah, Mary, Rebecca, Thomas, James, John and Joseph (born in Consett and only 1 month old).

After that, George totally disappeared.
• In 1861, family is still in Consett, but without George. Susannah is the head, but is shown as Married. Either the census is right and George is alive somewhere, either Susannah is a Widow, and George died not long ago (as their last kid James is only 16 months old!). He could be sick and at his parents, or injured in a hospital after a disaster at work (several happened in Consett); he could also be arrested, as a lot happened in Consett (Irish riots).
• In 1871, Susannah and kids moved to Harrowgate Hill, Darlington, Durham. She is now clearly a Widow.
• In 1873, son Thomas is getting married, and the father is clearly shown as deceased, and his occupation was Shingler.

I can't find any George Simpson who died in Consett from FreeBMD. He probably died elsewhere. In 1861, he can't be clearly found in any census, (yet).

[bolemo]

Merry Christmas to all.

A lot of new information and paths about this family…

Isabella maiden name is Barcley. I got birth certificate for Hannah (born in Walker 11 Feb 1840) and for Thomas (born in Bishopwearmouth 22 Dec 1844). Both clearly shows Isabella Barcley being the mother, and George Simpson being the father. In the 1841 census, we can see that Isabella is from Scotland, as well as Janet (aka Jessy / Jesse / Jessie). Hannah is logically from Northumberland.

in 1851, and after, we won't see Isabella anymore, but Susannah. I though she was the same, as age and Scottish origin are matching… But I rethought the possibility of Isabella and Susannah not being the same woman, and I found this on familysearch:

Name: George Simpson
Spouse's Name: Susannah Brogan
Event Date: 12 Jun 1848
Event Place: Monk-Wearmouth, Durham, England
Father's Name: Thomas Simpson
Spouse's Father's Name: James Duggy
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00769-0 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1514568 , Reference ID: 131

A marriage in a geographical area that is totally compatible, a year that is compatible, and both spouses are widowed… If this is the same George, it means that Isabella died after 1844, but before 1848; it also means George had a thing for Scottish women… I ordered the birth certificate for Henry Simpson (born end of 1853), and I will know if the mother is formerly Barlcey (so Isabella) or Duggy or something else (so another wife). If that is confirmed, that means that Jessy, Hannah, Mary, Rebecca, Elizabeth, Thomas and possibly James (the first) have Isabella for mother. John, Joseph, Henry and James (the second) have then Susannah for mother. Possibly, some of the previous kids were hers, and got adopted by George… That needs to be checked with censuses.

That theory (Isabella ≠ Susannah) would explain why Thomas was so close to his big sister Janet, as they had apparently the same mother.
Why are all the kids (from Isabella) showing as sons or daughters when Susannah is the head? She may have adopted them or considered them as her children… To be clarified.

Now, about George… If this marriage with Susannah is his, we know his father was Thomas. Thomas (the son of George), got also married two times, his first wife died. His first marriage, in 1868, states his father, George, to be a Shingler (and is not mentioned as deceased). His second marriage in 1873, states his father, George, to be a Shingler as well, but deceased… In 1871, Susannah is a Widow in the Census… So he probably died between 1868 and 1871. But where? And where was he in 1861? Still many mysteries, but new informations, and paths to explore…

About Janet / Jessy, we found her, from 1841 all the way (in all censuses) to her death in 1900. She was born in Scotland, probably Dundee (as an earlier census states), or Dumbarton (as other censuses are showing).

[ggrocott]

Oh, wow, will start looking as soon as I have time!

[ggrocott]

Have found Susannah Brogan age 23 born Scotland in Durham in 1841 with Thomas a glassmaker age 21, who says he is born in Scotland and daughter Mary age 9 months which explains the Hannah and Mary both born about 1840. Have also found a death for Thomas Brogan in 1846 Gateshead Durham. However, I have also found:-
Thomas BROGAN
Age years 22 -
Birth town Killymaird
Birth county Donegal
Birth country Ireland
Corps 25th Foot
Year 1840
Day 28
Month Aug
Summary 25th Foot; 22; Killymaird; Donegal; Labourer; 28 Aug 1840
Record set Army Deserters 1828-1840

Rather a lot of possibilities for the death of Isabella Simpson between 1840 and 1848.

Gill