Where is John

[garydevine1995]

Hi everyone just too let you all no i still havent found john i have looked over all my posts and i have looked at 5 ovbious john devines in the 1911 census and they arent him. looks like i wont find him.

Gary.

[Montrose Budie]

Hi everyone just too let you all no i still havent found john i have looked over all my posts and i have looked at 5 ovbious john devines in the 1911 census and they arent him. looks like i wont find him.

Gary.

OK, I'll give this two more tries.

There's a fairly obvious 54 year old Coal Miner in Holytown, a boarder in the household of Frances McIlavey. Shown as single, but that's the result of what Frances wrote in the schedule.

mb

[garydevine1995]

Aww, thanks Mb i will take a look at that one then

Thank you,

Gary.

[Montrose Budie]

Second try, so to write !

I find the original post most confusing in terms of what is and what is not known, and just what is the objective of the post.

There's also a contradiction in that it starts off with a comment that GG Grandfather John DEVINE, and his wife Elizabeth CROOKS can't be found, but ends up with dates for their deaths and births.

Hi, there might be a few other comments on another post involving this question but i want to start a new one.

I cant find My GG Grandfather John Devine, and his wife Elizabeth Crooks.

I now suspect that this question relates to just the 1911 census, but this is far from clear ..............

As mentioned later, the dates of the deaths and births of John D[E/I]VINE and Elizabeth CROOKS are known.

OK, there's a complication in that both were married twice, but both are straightforward to locate in the various censuses.

on the other post i couldnt find his children thomas catherine mary and william but to my suprise i have just found the children living with there uncle on their mothers side, james daisley.

Not in the least surprising as their mother, John's first wife, Elizabeth DAISLEY, died a couple of months before the relevant census.

It was very common in such a situation for the wains to be 'parked' with a relative, as the father had no way to look after them.

i was actually looking for johns step sister maria mcguire/devine but i couldnt find her either ......

Can't understand this comment, as the marriage between Maria DEVINE and James McGUIRE is very easy to locate. They then appear in the various censuses up until their respective deaths.

i only find i think her daughter maria who is 16. she is living with a family with the second name curly. i have no idea who they are but also another two siblings of maria, the 16 year old, are staying with the curlys as well.

Firstly, see above.

Note that Maria and her siblings are shown in 1911 as either niece or nephew of the head of the CURLEY household

The dates and ages involved mean that it's extremely biologically unlikely that the 16 year old Maria is a daughter of the Maria DEVINE who was born in the 1830s.

A granddaughter, possibly/probably, yes, and a wee bit of digging on the CURLEY family details from the 1911 census will prove that via a link to the surname TACKNEY, a surname that occurs in the tree, i.e. the CURLEY head of the household, or his spouse, was related to this Maria's mother.

The technique here is either to try a shortcut research for the marriage, based on the names, i.e. the husband's full name, and the spouse's given name, along with the likely years of marriage given the ages of the kids; or locating the birth register entry for a kid, which supplies the place and date of the marriage.

Anyway, i have no idea where john and his wife would be so could you help me he was born in 1859 and she was born in 1858. he died in 1914 and she died in 1919.

This is where I get extremely confused, as the the records of the 1858 & 1859 births, and the 1914 & 1919 deaths are quite clear on ScotlandsPeople, this in the particular sense that John Devine, his wife Elizabeth Crooks, and previous spouses are straightforward to locate in the censuses up to 1901.

OK, if this query relates solely to the 1911 census, that's quite a different matter, but that is not made clear, so that TS members could easily waste time aiming to respond.


On reflection, following a deep look into the situation, we've probably been more than a bit unfair on Gary, in that it's now obvious to me that he has indeed invested time and money on his D[E/I]VINE research, but that has never been fully obvious.

In other words, when asking a question on TS, don't be worried about the length of the post, but please, please give us all the info that you already have, even at the risk of repeating material from previous threads, and make it clear just what is the specific question being asked.

mb

[garydevine1995]

Thanks Mb,

I must apologise, i feel so embarrassed. I thought i said the 1911 census, i am extremely sorry. I thought that johns children would have been staying with their uncle is because possibly they were against their fathers new marriage, but i suppose there are other reasons. My post does relate to the 1911 census.

If you want me too give out all info on john and elizabeth i will do so just to help, but if not then i wont hahaha.

Gary.

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Gary

Every last bit of info isn't needed; just what is pertinent to the query.

mb

[garydevine1995]

ok,

John devine was Born in hamilton in 1859 and he died in hamilton in 1914, he was a coal miner
Elizabeth Crooks was born in Hamilton in 1858 and she died in 1919 in hamilton.

They got married in 1906 in Hamilton.

Elizabeth had children in her previous marriage and so did john. i dont no the names of any of her previous children. there could be one or two maybe living with them in 1911. john and elizabeth would be about 52, 53 give or take a few years incase the age is written down wrong.

I am looking for a 1911 census for them.

Thats all the info i no about them that would be relevant to the info on the census. if theres anything else you would like to no let me no.

Gary.

[paddyscar]

Hi Gary:

Excellent question style - clear, concise and well thought out.

I've looked for John Devine age 50 - 55 to allow for age errors, male in the SP census 1911 and found only 4. If I add Hamilton to the search there are 0 hits.

Also, if I add Elizabeth, or any variation of that name, (as the second person) I get 0 hits.

Searching for Elizabeth Devine, age 50 - 55, allowing for age errors, it comes up with only 2 hits. Adding in Hamilton it goes down to 0.

They may have been living apart when the census was taken. The thing I would suggest is to look at the list of 4 John Devines and then look at the list of Elizabeth Devines and see if the District : City/county : Gros Data can help identify the most likely records to look at.

Frances

[garydevine1995]

Thanks Francis,

I have looked at the 4 records for john. there is like two in lanark, one in calton, glasgow and then one in coatbridge area and none of them seem to be him. there was the holytown one in lanark and he was 54 but when i looked it says he was born in Ireland. I thought to myself perhaps it could be him as he is a coal miner so maybe he got work there but then i realised if john was born in Ireland then he would have the accent, and my john was born in hamilton so he would of had a clear scottish accent.

I havent looked at the two Elizabeths so i will definatly do that.

Gary

[AnneM]

Hi Gary

It may just be worth looking at those Elizabeths but I have some doubts that either are her. It's probably worth the look anyway. To try to be sure they were not away somewhere I looked for Elizabeth in both England and Ireland and drew a blank so unless I'm missing something she's not there. BTW the Elizabeth Devlin aged 55 in Hamilton is not her mistranscribed either. Maybe someone will find them but there's always a possibility that they just got missed somehow. I have one family which does not appear in England, Scotland or Ireland in 1901 and no explanation can be found.

Anne