John Lamont and Family

[SarahND]

Hi DB,
I would think that the John who drowned was born in North Uist. Google the place and you will find all sorts of interesting information.
You're right to be cautious about accepting this John as yours, however, as there are a few other candidates around in 1841. There is this family in North Uist on FreeCen:

Druim Du Paiblesgarry, North Uist
LAMONT Duncan, 60, Herd, born Inverness-shire
LAMONT Anne, 60, born Inverness-shire
LAMONT John, 30, born Inverness-shire
LAMONT Archy, 20, born Inverness-shire

No indication of an occupation for that John, nor any sign of those Lamonts left on North Uist in 1851

In 1841 there is also a John Lamont, 30, born Scotland, Mer S living in Greenock in the household of John Black, an Ag Lab

Being a merchant seaman in the right place and the right age... this might well be the one who met that awful fate.

I don't think the distances would make much difference for a seaman or fisherman. They got about much more than one would think. See the topic about the book The Christian Watt Papers: viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15850

For example, look at the birthplaces of the Lamonts on North Uist in 1851:

There is an Isabella Lamont, age 62, born Dalmaly Argyllshire, in the household of Malcolm McCleod, the postmaster. Also in the household is Mary Lamont, granddaughter age 3, born Glasgow

The other household consists of:
LAMONT Niel, head, 29, Carpenter (Boat) born North Uist
LAMONT Flory, Wife, 26, born Inverness-shire - Duirinish
LAMONT Mary Ann, dau, 3m born North Uist

All the best,
Sarah

[Currie]

Hello all,

I had another bit of a look around but couldn’t find anything useful. The trouble with Rothesay as with many other parishes is that there are no death records prior to statutory registration. He could have died at home of whatever cause with the death completely unrecorded.

Alan

[jdbPA]

Sara,

Not sure if I had brain clog or a finger jumble, but North Uist looks like a spectacular place. The John in Glasgow you found seems like a better candidate for the wreck, and they did seem to move around a bit.

I don't understand why the first children were christened in Inverchaolain while they were living on Bute, and the last few were christened in Rothesay. It could be something as simple as preferring a certain clergyman and may not have much signifigance.

Alan,

It looks like the Isle of Man isn't much better than Rothesay? I wondered if they would have the burial record stating the widow's name since it looks like Lamont was burried there, but the records don't look like they are very informative or easy to get. The following site is interesting:

http://www.butesonsanddaughters.co.uk/

I don't know if they would be able to dig something up or not.

DB

[Russell]

Hi DB

I wonder if, during the time span you're looking at, the parish was without a minister which would explain the baptisms. Sometimes a minister was expected to cover more than one island such as on Colonsay and Jura. When the weather was too bad they would have to wait until it improved before making a hazardous crossing and baptisms particularly show up in batches in the Colonsay records.
Have you looked for info on the sequence of ministerial cover in the parish ?

Russell

[jdbPA]

Have you looked for info on the sequence of ministerial cover in the parish ?

No Russell, and I'm not sure where that would be. The coverage issues you described make sense, and now I'm wondering if the christening locations indicate much. However, I don't know if there were any ministers keeping a diary or other personal records.

[WilmaM]

There is a section on ministers etc on the boards here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16302

This link may help you;
http://www.archive.org/stream/fastieccl ... 2/mode/2up

to plot a time line of ministers in the parishes you are looking at.

[Currie]

Hello DB,

Here’s the Genuki for the Isle of Man. Civil registration of deaths didn’t start there until 1878. You could try some of the links but I don’t like your chances of finding anything extra. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/iom/

There was a problem with Rothesay Church in the 1830s, and possibly earlier, that may have led to Gaelic speakers going elsewhere.

The New Statistical Account published 1845 sets out the state of things in the Parish of Rothesay for the established and the breakaway churches. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=RKI ... 22&f=false

In the Glasgow Herald, September 10, 1858, there’s a story that says in part: “Some twenty years ago the Rothesay Parish Church had Gaelic service in the forenoon, and English in the afternoon. About that time, however, it was found that the requirements of the town demanded two services in English, and the church authorities decided that the Gaelic should be put out.”
This appears to have caused quite a stir which was only cooled down by the offer to build a Gaelic only church and that was located in Colbeck Square. When the disruption arrived the minister went “Free” until he died about 1844.

The Glasgow Herald, of Friday, October 1, 1858, contained an explanation from someone that the Gaelic language services in the Parish church and Chapel of Ease ceased about the year 1836. The new church that was subsequently built was supposed to be COS, and Gaelic only, but it seceded in 1843.

It seems a chapel of ease is just an additional church built within a parish to make things easier for some parishioners.

Alan

[jdbPA]

Thanks for the parish record links. It's interesting to see the impact of language on parishioners. Was this a conscious attempt to eradicate the language or just a matter of not having clergy that could speak Gaelic?

[Russell]

Hi DB
From the union of England and Scotland the use of Scots was discouraged but the effective banning of Gaelic was enforced from the 1745 uprising . It didn't work on the islands but certainly had a major impact on mainland Scotland. The migration of highlanders to the industrial areas brought large numbers of gaelic speakers into the larger centres of industry like Paisley and Glasgow in the 1840's and several gaelic speaking churches were established to meet the worship needs; and social needs, of their new congregations.
In the later 1800's most of the Glasgow police force were native gaelic speakers and even into the 1950's many of my psychiatric nursing colleagues were gaelic speakers. So the banning of the language didn't quite work. It nearly did though.

Russell

[jdbPA]

Hmm, it makes me wonder if Bute had same "native" Gaelic speakers or if they were migrants. Guess I need to read up on things.

Any good freebies from google books or archive.com? Some of the out of copyright stuff can steer you in the wrong direction, but sometimes the older histories can be gems.

I checked with an Aussie cousin who has better insights, family stories and ties to Scotland. She's not inclined to go with shipwreck-John due to the Uist birth but thinks the Glasgow marriage record is his. Double checked and I have information that says John's father was John Lamont, born in Bute. But of course it isn't referenced. Hmm

Oh well, at least I learned a bit about Gaelic in the process.