Rose family of Leith

[LesleyB]

Hi Tim

As far as I am aware, you do not need to go as far as Edinburgh to view the digitised Kirk Session records as the following archives may also have access:
Highland Council Archives, Inverness http://www.highland.gov.uk/leisureandto ... larchives/
Aberdeen City and Aberdeenshire Archives
- best to check with them for access times, whether you need to book a seat in advance, ID you may need to take with you etc, before setting out.

(However, if you were looking forwards to a wee jaunt to Edinburgh, no reason why not!!?)

Other thing to check, just incase your Roses owned any property in Leith would be the sasines - these can sometimes give quite detailed information about who was related to who and how they were related. (they've tied up a few "maybes" for me in the past) You may be able to access the digitised sasines at the above archives - another question to ask them!

Best wishes
Lesley

p.s. Not sure if you have seen this
http://www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/issu ... 9/page.pdf
- maybe related to your Roses? (3rd itme down in left column)

[TimRose]

I hadn't thought of being able to view the kirk session records through Highland council. E-mail sent to ask them about it.

That bit in the Edinburgh Gazette is interesting. None of the people people mentioned are people that I have connected with but my great grandparents lived at 6 Fort Place in 1903 and 7 Fort Place in 1906. Around that time they moved house every couple of years so were not there for either 1901 or 1911 census which is a shame. Perhaps it is time to try to expand the family tree outwards to see if they connect.

The more I find the more I find I have still to find!!!

[IanU]

Hi Tim, as this post is a few months old, I'm not sure if it is still open, but I am a direct descendant of Walter Goalen Rose through his son William (1831-79). William married Robina Aitken (1832-1910) in Glasgow on 13 Jul 1855. Both William & Robina's father were ship's carpenters, but Robina's mother was Margaret Rose. She was born in Nairn and was the daughter of William Rose and Anne Fraser who was William's 1st wife. My guess is that William snr travelled between Nairn & Leith before moving to N Leith. But I didn't know about a son called John or the identity of Walter Goalen after whom my ancester was named, so these are both new to me.

Regards, Ian U

[StewL]

Hello IanU

if Tim has the same email address he should get a notification of your post and reply.

[TimRose]

Ian
Sorry it took me a wee while to notice your post - I had my settings for being notified wrong.

Does that mean that William and Robina were cousins when they married (although they had different grandmothers)?
I knew that William was a widower when he married Anne Charlot (it says so on the marriage record) but had identified a couple of possible first wives without being able to confirm which was correct due to the lack of death records in Nairn.

Do you know anything more about William Rose (Walters father)?

I am sure now that the William and Ann who married in Nairn in 1799 is our couple. Charlot is a really rare name in Scotland at the time (Charlot/Charlott/Charlotte - all anglicisations of the French Charlet). There seems to be only one (extended) family with this name in Scotland in the mid-late 1700s.
Ann Charlot (b 1766) was the daughter of Charles Charlott and Mary Sommervile (m.1755).
Charles died in 1794 aged 58 "a weaver from his house in Picardy" which would put his birth around 1736.

There is no record that I can find of the birth of this Charles Charlot but in 1729 Jean (James) Charlet and Marie Marguerite (Margaret) Flamont arrived in Leith (as part of a group of French immigrants, all of whom were weavers from Picardy in France, the street in Edinburgh where they settled is still called Picardy Place) with their son Jean (b.1727). They had another son they day they arrived (George Auguste b.1729). Jean remarried Susanna Dauson in 1734 and had a daughter Suzanne in 1734.
I think our Charles Charlot (grandfather of Walter Goalen Rose) was probably a son of this French immigrant and the birth record is lost (or perhaps there was a French Church in Edinburgh whose records I can't find) . It is a rare name, we have a couple producing children at the right time and living on the same street that our Charles lived on when he died and carrying out the same trade.

If you think that that is a safe enough assumption then this site http://www.roelly.org/~pro_picards/prop/index.html has the ancestors of the family that came to Edinburgh back for another few generations.

Sorry that probably all a bit disjointed - I need to organise my notes a bit better.

Tim

[Mariafrose]

Hi Tim,

Like you; I found a death for William Rose in 1825 in Couper Street; this puts his birth as 1771. When he married Ann Charlot, he was living in Nairn; also states that he is a Widower and that he is a Wright. (I know you must be sucking lemons by now.

Working on the theory that he was married before and was married to Anna Frasor in 1793 in Inverness, they then moved to Nairn whereby they had two children Margaret Rose and William Rose. This theory works as it Robina's mother was a Margaret Rose and I cannot find any other William Rose with a daughter named Margaret for that time period. Furthermore, we know that Walter and Robina were cousins when they married.

Therefore; on the theory that he did marry Anna in Inverness, I looked for births in that area; I found one for William for Dec 1771; father James of Drakies and mother Jean Denoon in Inverness in 1757. They had another five children (Elizabeth, Alexander, David, James and Anne born in a 10 year period between 1764 to 1774). There were several James Rose I found born in the area of Inverness and Nairn around the time of 1731 (bearing in mind I work on the theory that James is couple of years older/younger than his wife and he may have travelled from Nairn to Inverness or born in Inverness).

Jean Denoon was born 1731 in Inverness (again working on her being born there); there was another two born in 1726; but I discounted that one as thought too old to be having children. Jean's parents are David Denoon and Margaret Scot. She had a sister named Barbara Denoon.

Again; this is all theory now. I did read on a forum that some Scottish records are lost. And don't you find that there are so many Rose histories online, but never the one you want!!!

Hope this makes sense and maybe helps a little.
Maria Rose

[TimRose]

Having looked over it I agree with you guys that Anna Frasor (SP?) was Williams first wife, everything matches.

I have had a dig about the William who was born in 1771. His Father is described as "of Drakies" in his marriage record, "of Stoneyfield" in Williams Birth record and "farmer in Culloden" on his death record (1794).
I assume Stoneyfield is where the current retail park is where the A96 joins the A9 in Inverness, about 1km NE of the Drakies area of Inverness. Culloden is about another 2km East of Stoneyfield. Whether this is actual moving about or just the boundaries between farms changing I don't know.

There was a long history of Roses at Drakies starting with John Rose (Mac-a-Bharon) (b.1525), son of Hugh 9th of Kilravock. They seemed to be a significant family with a number of them being baillies or provosts of Inverness (Geneological deduction of the family of Rose of Kilravock, p526-8) but this account only goes up to 1684 and I can't jump the gap between 1684 and James Rose who would have been born in the early(ish) 1700s.

However, all of this does suggest that this James Rose (who Married Jean Denoon) was 1) from a fairly well to do family and 2) a farmer. This does not seem to match our William Rose (who married Anna Fraser the Anne Charlot) who was a carpenter/wright (and whos descendants were carpenters for the next 3 or 4 generations) and seemed to be from a fairly low social class.

Other possibilities might be;
William (13/5/1770) born in Croy & Dalcross (only another couple of km East of Inverness - Dalcross is where Inverness airport is).
William (17/2/1773) born Cawdor
William (31/12/1773) born Auldearn

I am still to find any evidence to support of deny that any of these are likely.