Granny shoved aff bus?.....

[Tusker]

Hi Tusker

Her parents were John Kelly and Catherine Boyle

There are a LOT of John Kellys in the 1881 with wives called Catherine...what did your John do for a living?
A lot of the Kellys, not surprisingly, came from Ireland. Would it be possible that your granny was born in Ireland and was not here for the 1891?

Lesley -- John was listed as a Commercial Traveller, which meant he possibly spent a lot of time "on the road", away from home.

It is possible that my Granny was born in Ireland, but I don't recall her having even the slightest trace of an Irish accent, so I'm thinking that if she did emigrate from Ireland, she did so as a very young child, rather than as a teenager.

Her parents MAY have stayed in Ireland, but she apparently had two siblings -- Ellen\Helen and John -- who apparently definitely lived in Scotland. I don't know if they were older or younger, or have any other info at all on them.

I can't find her in the 1891 census when she'd have been about 7-8 according to the age of 18 given on her marriage license, or the 1901 census which was taken just 3 months before she married my Grandad on June 28th, 1901, from her "Usual Residence" at 181 South Wellington St. - which was also given as my Granddad's usual residence.....Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places -- but she was married in St Francis RC Church, Hutchesontown, and from what I understand, couples usually married in the "bride's parish". So even if they were planning on moving into 181 South Wellie St AFTER they married, she must have lived somewhere in the Hutchesontown Parish, to be married in St Francis.

I REALLY appreciate all of this input, as I'm hoping someone may come up with an avenue I've overlooked.....Thanks to all.....

[LesleyB]

Hi Tusker
This may be the wrong family entirely and I don't think you are in any danger of having to part with that caramel wafer picture yet, but this family made me look twice while looking through all the couples who are John & Catherine Kelly in Lanarkshire!

• Dwelling: 376 Cumberland St
  Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
  Source: FHL Film 0203671 GRO Ref Volume 644-11 EnumDist 58 Page 22
  John KELLY M 36 M Ireland
  Rel: Head
  Occ: Hawker
  Catherine KELLY M 33 F Ireland
  Rel: Wife
  Mary KELLY 12 F Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
  Rel: Daur
  Occ: Scholar
  John KELLY 10 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland
  Rel: Son
  Occ: Scholar
  Catherine KELLY 6 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
  Rel: Daur
  Occ: Scholar
  Elizabeth KELLY 2 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
  Rel: Daur

Hawker doesn't seem too removed from what later might be called "Commercial Traveller" and they have a son John - but ...also a daughter Elizabeth. I know your Elizabeth ought not to have been born yet...but, ages on marriage entries are not always accurate for one reason or another. The problem is there are just so many Kellys - I went to check the birth of the Elizabeth shown below on SP and was told there were 13 matches for Elizabeth Kelly born 1878-1879 in Lanarkshire.
And anyway, Elizabeth as above might not be your one at all.

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Hi Tusker
Another angle:
There are two Catherine Boyle/Kelly deaths on SP:

1914 KELLY CATHERINE BOYLE F 60 DENNISTOUN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK

1937 KELLY CATHERINE BOYLE F 50 CAMBUSLANG GLASGOW CITY/LANARK (this one would seem to be too young)

Might be worth checking them for more info, hoping that one of them is the correct Catherine. Fingers crossed that one is, and in an ideal world the death informant might just be someone like Ellen/Helen Married-name (daughter) Well, worth a try. You gotta be lucky sometimes

Best wishes
Lesley

[Tusker]

Lesley -- WOW!!! If that family checks out, there'll be a whole ALBUM of Caramel Wafer pics heading your way! (And a seat on the board of the International Hudgie-Stealers Association).

Most of the info fits, other than the additional Mary and young Catherine --but that may be that the Uncle who told me about my Granny having a brother John and sister Ellen, may not have known about M & C. Maybe they died young or left home never to be seen or heard from again. And maybe Ellen wasn't even born yet.

I take it you got the info from the 1881 census? Is that correct?....

I'll check out the two Catherine deaths, too....Thanks!

[LesleyB]

Hi Tusker
Don't get too excited yet! - Yes, sorry, should have said, it was from the 1881 census. I have a note of eight other John/Catherine combinations in Lanarkshire. That one just jumped out a bit at me. However, it may lead you up the wrong wally close! I'll PM you the other John/Catherine combinations I found.

Of the two found deaths this one looks the more likley age-wise.
1914 KELLY CATHERINE BOYLE F 60 DENNISTOUN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK - but it could also be a false trail as I doubt that Kelly /Boyle is an unusual combination.


Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Tusker
From the birth of son John Kelly in Edinburgh in January 1871, in the family above, it seems that Catherine, the wife of John Kelly, (Hawker of soft goods) surname was O'Reilly. They were married 1866, Edinburgh.

Back to the drawing board.....

[Tusker]

Lesley -- The bus pulls in at the stop -------- but Granny's got fed up waiting and she's taken off at the gallop once again!..... I should have known better than to start hoping. She's slippier than a greased pig on an ice rink, the auld bat...

[LesleyB]

Hi Tusker
Without a huge amount of credits on SP the going could get difficult on this one...
Have you tried searching for James Adam(s) aged around 19-20yrs on SP in the 1901? There just have to be fewer of them than Kellys!!! That may be enough to find you the household and reveal, or not reveal, your granny!

Another thought might be to order the 1901 census film for the area which contains 181 South Wellington Street (644-11 Govan in 1881 but could be different by 1901..) and checking who is at that address? Given that she was working as a "confectionary worker" at the time of her marriage it may be that she was a lodger at the address. James Adams may have been a lodger there as well.

You can order films from your local LDS Family History Centre for a very small charge - I think its about £2.50 here in UK. If you then found a place of birth for Elizabeth it might clarify things a bit.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Tusker]

Lesley -- I found James in the 1901 Census alive and well, and living with his parents in Rutherglen, Since the census was at the beginning of April and he married my Wilhemina o' the Wisp on June 28, I suppose he could have moved out and purchased his own palatial estate up the close at 181 South Wellie St. However, the census wouldn't show him in two places at once -- unless he'd been taken lessons from my granny!

I guess as you say, I'll have to try checking out the address of the Adams estate, and hope that the parish priest made her tell the truth about where she lived. Maybe they rented the palace a few months before they married because they got a smashin' deal from a friendly real estate agent, and Liz lived there on her own until James made an honest woman of her.

Ohhh, the durty wee besom.......I bet all the neighbour wimmen were just hangin' oot the windaes, gossipin' their heids aff about her scandalous behaviour!.........I can see a book and a movie deal in this......

[LesleyB]

Hi Tusker
Ok, was unaware that you had James "in the net" for the 1901. That just leaves your granny (as usual!). A check on 181 South Wellington Street for 1901 would be worthwhile just to see if she is there (We need the help of Jack here...Is there a census index for 1901? - Govan-ish area?) ...but if they arranged 181 South Wellington Street inbetween mid-April and the wedding then we're back to square one!

I'm beginning to appreciate your predicament.
However, don't give up ..she's got to be somewhere...

Best wishes
Lesley