Renwick Morrison Bell Wares (Ayr Glasgow).....

[b1b2j3]

Thanks everyone...I'll continue looking and digesting whats been given. It is just lovely that there are people to help. I've used a few Message Boards and there is a tendency for people to not share actual data, be very vague or even on one board on the Muir Family, hijack every post to a private email. I believe in getting all 'live' documentation out there in honour of the dead.

Bron

[b1b2j3]

Great stuff Davie...I really appreciate what you have found out about my Family. I just adore Catherine (is that weird?). Because she took on all those children, a slightly ''nutty'' husband and what looks like, the butchery business after his death. I love the previous Margaret Wares Muir as well. She had such a short life. When I found out about William, Cath & Marg's husband, I cried. Also a tragic end and a bit sus in my view.

On the IGI / LDS Caths Mother Janet Bell is stated as- Birth: 1826 Canchatton Island Of, Luing, Argyll, Scotland. Marriage: 24 MAY 1846. Barony, Lanark, Scotland to Robert Morrison. But, I never take IGI / LDS as a prove document. Always spend GROS points and here, haven't got there as yet. I'm a duffa, I just didn't put the Ling & Luing together until Mary mentioned it. [/quote]

[emanday]

Luing and Seil are off the west coast, next to the Argyll peninsula, about 100 miles north of Glasgow.

Shetland Islands are way up north of Scotland.

[b1b2j3]

Hi again Bron ... If the above parents are indeed Catherine’s
Why does she constantly give her birthplace as Argyle?Davie

Possibly because she didn't want to be seen as a "hick" from a fairly uninhabited island off in the ...is it the North Sea... haven't got to that map yet. I actually think there was a lot of avoidance of any connection with Ireland, small islands and some clan associations about at that time.

My Mothers Mother Allison Muir McArthur escaped to Australia in 1921 with children & husband (John Burden Bannatyne), for just that reason. Religion and politics she couldn't bare the mix. Although she was quite a 'political' animal to the end. Poor, very poor, but very pro-union ala maritime workers and cleaners. She seemed to be escaping the Muirs and the Frasers actually ! The Burdens and the Bannatynes were hard living and travelling publicans, brewers and merchants.

Bron[/i]

[b1b2j3]

I got this research from a really good person at the National Archives. I couldn't afford the &225 (about $600 at the time Aus.). However another generous soul sent me the basic docs from France. On his holidays ! A Glasgow Health person. I was sooo grateful. Glad I can pass it on for Muir relatives. William Muir Senior was, to my knowledge born in 1842 in Mearns Renfrew. His Father was James Muir a teacher. I found this out first and got a real shock at below. William senior (he had a son Wm by Margaret Wares in circa 1871), was suffering religious delusions.

He could have simply been having a breakdown? Or had a Disability like autism or bi-polar or depression ? Bi-polar doesn't run in the Family.

William Muir
Thank you for your e-mail of the 29th August concerning the above.
The National Archives of Scotland holds trial records from the High Court of Justiciary (series ref: JC), which is the court that deals with the most serious criminal cases in Scotland. We also hold records from the Crown Office (series ref: AD), including the 'precognitions' from High Court cases. Precognitions are the documents put together before a trial to prepare the case against the accused, and they contain statements from witnesses about the offence.
Most of the details of these records are found in full on our electronic catalogue, which is available on our website at www.nas.gov.uk. However, staff here have also created a database (the 'Solemn Database') which holds basic information about people tried at the High Court in the 19th century, information taken from the records themselves. The Solemn Database is only available to researchers in our West Search Room here at West Register House, Charlotte Square, Edinburgh, and you cannot access it on the internet.
Having checked the Solemn Database, I found the following information about William Muir:
Address: Royal Lunatic Asylum, Gartnavel, Govan, Lanark
Age: Unstated
Occupation: Butcher
Crimes Accused: Murder
Place of Trial: Edinburgh
Date of Trial: 3rd July 1876
Verdict: Diet deserted
Verdict Comment: Insanity in bar of trial - diet deserted pro loco et tempore
Other Notes: To be kept in strict custody at Perth Prison until her Majesty's pleasure be known
Precognition ref: AD14/76/208
Bk of Adjournal ref: JC4/75
Minute Bk ref: JC8/74, folios 137v & 138r
Case Papers ref: JC26/1876/291
You will note that we have listed three different records of the trial: a Book of Adjournal entry (ref: JC4/75), a minute book entry (ref: JC8/74, folios 137v & 138r), and the case papers (ref: JC26/1876/291). High Court Books of Adjournal and Minute Books contain summaries of trial details, and as they are very similar it usually isn't necessary to look at both records. The case papers are made up of various official trial documents but do not contain transcripts, which don't exist for trials at this date.
We can either supply you with a microfilm holding copies of the precognition, minute book entry and case papers at the estimated cost of £150.00, or we can supply paper copies at the prices listed below:
Precognition (ref: AD14/76/208) £195.00
Minute Bk (ref: JC8/74, folios 137v & 138r) £10.00
Case Papers (ref: JC26/1876/291) £20.00
Total £225.00

As well as trial records we hold surviving prison records, including those of the General Prison in Perth. There are registers for this prison (series ref: HH21/47), case books for their Criminal Lunatic Department (series ref: HH21/48), and Governor's Journals (series ref: HH12/63). Although staff here cannot carry out extended research on your behalf, I looked at some of these records for you for information on William Muir.
I first checked the Criminal Department Case Book for the period 1875-1887 (ref: HH21/48/2), but I couldn't find any information about William Muir in this book. I therefore checked the Governor's Journal for the period 1874-1898 (ref: HH12/63/7), and found two brief references. Firstly, an entry for the 3rd July, 1876, found on page 50:
260/35 W[illia]m Muir, aged 33, an Insane Prisoner, sentenc'[e]d to be detained during H.M.'s pleasure, was admitted by manager's direction to the Lun[ati]c Dep[artmen]t, direct from the High Court of Justiciary Edinburgh.
Secondly, from the 15th July (page 52):
260/35 W[illia]m Muir, aged 33, have injured himself by rushing head-foremost against a wall, died in Lun[ati]c Dep[artmen]t at 0:15 PM of injury to, with concussion (?) of, the spine: Death duly intimated.
Due to the format of the Journal and the size of the writing, these entries would be difficult to copy, and I have therefore not provided an estimate for this.

There is at least one other possible source of information held here at The National Archives of Scotland that I can suggest. William Muir was already in the Royal Lunatic Asylum, Gartnavel at the time of the offence, and we hold information on admissions to asylums as part of the records of the Mental Welfare Commission (series ref: MC2). These are a series of monthly volumes containing copies of the 'Notices of Admission' by the Superintendent of the Mental Institution. The Notices of Admission include a report by the admitting physician, details of the petition to the Sheriff, personal details of the patient, two medical certificates, and an emergency order granted by the Sheriff.
From information I have found in the case papers from his trial, it appears that William Muir was admitted on the 12th July 1875. The volume containing Notices of Admission for July 1875 is held under our reference MC2/196; it is also out-stored, requiring notice to be produced.

Yours sincerely,
Neil Miller
West Search Room Archivist
THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF SCOTLAND
West Register House
Charlotte Square
Edinburgh
EH2 4DF

[Russell]

Hi Bronwen

The only villages on Luing are Cullipool and Toberonachy so you would be looking for a farm or steading.
Modern maps would not show it and I was not able to find an old map which included the island.

Don't tell the Luing folk its a relatively uninhabited island. Toberonachy has at least 27 houses!!! - and a harbour!
The island is famous, if you like cattle, for the Luing bulls which are exported all over the world. They're an Aberdeen Angus/Charolais cross.

Google Luing cattle and see what comes up.
It was too late to phone my sister-in-law to ask about Canchatton. She lives on the island and was born there.

Russell

[b1b2j3]

On the useless information theme:
Davie

... Davie I love social history info like this. Thank thank you. It's taken me a long time to try to get a bulk of my Family ( Kerr, MacKinnon, Bannatyne, Burden generally male side & Muir, Wares, Morrison generally female side) into proper dates. Am a bit slow on the Girls, I admit. I just adore finding out about their life and times. Even if it does make me cryt sometimes. And sometimes I get mad as well. Oh well. Bronwen

[b1b2j3]

Hi Bronwen

Don't tell the Luing folk its a relatively uninhabited island. Toberonachy has at least 27 houses!!! - and a harbour! The island is famous, if you like cattle, for the Luing bulls which are exported all over the world. They're an Aberdeen Angus/Charolais cross.... woops sorry.

Google Luing cattle and see what comes up. Another lead- cattle, butchers, all those cattlemen of the Mitchell Family who married into the Muirs. Holy sheet ! Thank you Russell.
It was too late to phone my sister-in-law to ask about Canchatton. She lives on the island and was born there.

Russell

[b1b2j3]

I have been transcribing cetificates tonight and found a John Renwick who was the Minister at Paisley North Church in 1869 who performed the marriage ceremony for my ancestors.

I don't know any more than that but wondered if he could be one of yours?

Annie

Could be Annie... Religion was the primary reason the Family escaped Scotland. And Allison Muir McArthur's Mother Marion (my GGGrandMother), would have been bought up in the Renwick homes and businesses.

The Muir and the Bannatyne Family Allison nee: Muir McArthur was born into and married into were tee totalling Free Church ministers and rollicking world travelling brewers and commercial travellers ! Little wonder Australia seemed a loooong way a way. Bron

[Davie]

On the IGI / LDS Caths Mother Janet Bell is stated as- Birth: 1826 Canchatton Island Of, Luing, Argyll, Scotland. Marriage: 24 MAY 1846. Barony, Lanark, Scotland to Robert Morrison. But, I never take IGI / LDS as a prove document. Always spend GROS points and here, haven't got there as yet. I'm a duffa, I just didn't put the Ling & Luing together until Mary mentioned it. [

Again Bron,
Thanks for sharing a wee bit of your family history with us, it is so interesting.
Like yourself, I have a favourite great aunt, also a Catherine, who had at least five children to four different partners and never married.
I love it, when you can trace yer kin, warts and all.
The last of my Muir connection in Argyle, Thomas and family moved from Taynult, this year.
Down tae Auld Reekie.
And I have a great Uncle, Ducan McNaughtan, buried on Lismore.
You can take the IGI records above, as verbatim.
Well, if the OPR are correct.
I have McFarlane rellies from the same parish.
Checked for your Bell's, and there is only the one family listed.
Janet is there, with a Morrison mother.

I have the copies of the Muir census returns that I mentioned, (1871, 1891 and 1901) plus lots more from St John's parish in Glasgow.

I can e-mail you the copies or post them in the gallery here.

Awrabest
Davie



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