McGregors Stirlingshire.....***birthday bumped post***

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:14 pm

Hing oan - ahm away for the credit card - back pronto - I'm so excited!!!

BW
PS x

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:45 pm

It's no' him

Where one door closes another slams in yer face

But I'm even more perplexed now. The marriage cert is for Robert McGregor, widower, ironstone miner (no mention of previous wife's name) and Agnes Jarvie. His parents are Duncan and Margaret Cleland, whereas I was hoping to see Wm McGregor and Margaret Wyllie. But the strange thing is that bridegroom Robert McGregor's usual address is the same as that of MY Robert McGregor jnr - age 23 (also an ironstone miner) 2 yrs later in the 1881 census.

The address given is now no more than a farm, but the 1881 census has 7 families living there. It looks like just a wee collection of houses around a farm, occupied by a farm servant, a mine manager and a couple of ironstone miners.

Soooo could there be a connection between the two Roberts who lived at that address within two years of each other. Or another maddening co-incidence designed to keep me away fae the ironing

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:35 pm

Hmmm. Of course you have noticed that no such child was born to those parents in Scotland in the relevant time?

The only rob*t m*cgr*g?r with father Duncan and mother Margaret is the son of Margaret Campbell... Who is this guy?

Is your information on his parents from his first marriage record? Any chance it could be wrong...?

I just can't believe it is coincidence that put them at the same address... Anyone up for some time-travelling to clear this up?

Sarah

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:10 pm

Yes - I did see that Sarah. And no marriage of Duncan and Margaret Cleland either.

Also, Robert & Agnes are nowhere to be seen in the area in 1881 - did they go to Pennsylvania too?

Whoever he married before Agnes, the ceremony didn't take place in Kilsyth so I don't have his first marriage details.

Now I'm beginning to doubt my own sanity, and question whether the info I have on Robert (hubby of Mgt Marshall) is correct. Crisis time - I'm off to check my sources.

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

PS Later - ALl looks fine to me - no discrepancies on names, ages more or less right, places consistent. And no sign of a Duncan.

grannysrock · Post by **grannysrock** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:48 am

Hi Pinkshoes, Sarah and Jean
Sorry to butt in - I just can't resist a good mystery
Taking a look at the Tioga census. Next door are

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Race Age Birthplace Occupation Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace
William DUNCAN Self M Male W 33 SCOT Miner SCOT SCOT
Jean DUNCAN Wife M Female W 28 SCOT K. House SCOT SCOT
Maggia DUNCAN Dau S Female W 8 SCOT SCOT SCOT
Agness DUNCAN Dau S Female W 6 SCOT SCOT SCOT
Anna DUNCAN Dau S Female W 4 SCOT SCOT SCOT
John MARCHAL Other W Male W 32 SCOT Miner SCOT SCOT
William TOWERS Other S Male W 24 SCOT Miner SCOT SCOT

Now this appears to match well with the following family;

WILLIAM DUNCAN Married JANE FRASER:

23 JUN 1871 Kilsyth, Stirling, Scotland
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M114831 1855 - 1875 6035516 REGISTER Film NONE

children:
MARGARET DUNCAN Birth: 04 MAR 1872 Denny, Stirling, Scotland
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C114763 1868 - 1875 6035516 REGISTER Film NONE

AGNES DUNCAN : Birth: 27 NOV 1873 Kilsyth, Stirling, Scotland
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C114833 1868 - 1875 6035516 REGISTER Film NONE

So ... if the neighbours were from Kilsyth, It seems to make it all the more likely that Robert and Agnes are from Kilsyth .

Also:
Agnes McGregor widow of Robert McGregor, coal miner died April 23rd 1893 at Banton , Kilsyth , aged 51 years, parents Peter Jarvie coal miner decd, Jean Jarvie ms Gracie decd, informant Peter Jarvie , brother , present.

Don't know if it helps !

I do hope you guys solve this !

Sally

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:04 am

Great sleuthing, Sally!
I think we have now cornered the Robert and Agnes who married in Kilsyth and then went to Pennsylvania (at least I'm convinced...!) The remaining question is, are these people Pinkshoes' relatives? I do hope so, but I'm not sure how we're going to find out. The family stories of mining in Pennsylvania do seem to point in that direction, though.
Regards,
Sarah

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:03 pm

Well folks....hate to tell you but you just cracked the mystery of the missing Jane.

That Jane Fraser in PA married to Mr. Duncan is my number one contender for Jane McGregorl. You see there is an OPR marriage for Mary Marshall and John Frazer in 1844?....I dunno need to check my notes typing frantically from memory here and that is very dangerous!!!!..........anyhow......When I saw the census of 1861 list Jane McGregor with a middle initial of F. I got to thinking.....hmmm...wonder if that could be another surname......like of her real daddy?????.......So I had looked for a Marshall/F* marriage and there was one that looked so possible in Denny!!! But nothing til now to make it connect!! (Ok...I admit I hadn't had the vision to look for a marriage of Jane Fra*er in Scotland as opposed to Jane McGregorl...

).....BUT...now that Sally has brilliantly brought in the neighbor theory.....I've looked at the marriage entry. Jane Duncan's parents were John Fraser and Margaret Marshall! In 1871 John was dec'd and Margaret was not. Unfortunately no reference to Margaret at that time being a McGregor.

I say you've got a lot of answers and fewer questions..

Best wishes
Jean

later edit.....whew...I'm back!

THis is the OPR marriage I was referring to.....

JOHN FRAZER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 31 MAY 1844 Denny, Stirling, Scotland

I should add that I even had had a wee rummage about in the 1841 Denny census to see if a John Frazer could be found and there was only one. Not sure if he was the man but he was a lodger with a William Marshall family and was age 35 I think? .....have to check that too I guess

grannysrock · Post by **grannysrock** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:55 pm

Jean =D> Knew you could do it.
I had briefly thought of Jean Duncan being litle Jean but as soon as I saw her name was Frazer , I let it go - forgetting her middle initial F?
Well done indeed.

Wee Janet died 31 dec 1916 at 46 Allandale, Bonnybridge, married to James Reid, Fireclay worker, ages 54 parents Robert McGregor , Coalminer (deceased) , Margaret McGregor MS Marshall (deceased),
informant James Reid widower, present.

How I got to that entry was to look up the deaths of Janet McGregors of the right birthyear - ish , and then looked for births with the "other" surname shown in the death results with "Margaret Marsha" as forenames.
Starting with the Janet's in Stirlingshire. I got a hit with Margaret Marshall Reid born 1903 Larbert - I didn't actually check this was Janet's child - I just went straight for the Reid/McGregor death record and it was thankfully the right one.

I guess that just leaves the wrong parents to sort out ?

Sally

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:19 pm

Well well.....Sally and Sarah....that's what I call TS TEAMWORK!!

I think we can take the rest of the day off.......

Pinkshoes...wherever you are.....hope you have a nice weekend!

Best wishes
Jean

apanderson · Post by **apanderson** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:51 pm

...... and if you want to know a wee bit about Allandale have a wee look at this site:

http://www.allandalecottages.co.uk

Allandale consists of two long rows of cottages one on either side of the road and looks exactly the same now as it did in some of the old photos.

Anne

TalkingScot.com

McGregors Stirlingshire.....birthday bumped post

just jean