Looking for King family Greenock.....

[JulieC]

Hi Folks

Many thanks for your help.

James death cert. tell me he was 38 yrs old when he died in 1868.
James Crawford King born 1824

I don't have any proof to back this up and as I mention before on the death cert. parents unknown.

So it still could be a possibility.

Victoria, Australia I believe based there certificates on the Scottish style, lot of info...I am very unlucky to have parents unknown when he was married with six children.

Regards Julie

[JulieC]

On James & Agnes "Banns" marriage cert. 26th Nov 1850

Says... James King baker son of the late Duncan King clockmaker in Greenock, and Agnes Connor daughter of the late John Connor labourer in Greenock, both residing in the Old Parish were booked the 8th and married 26th November 1850 by Rev Robert Wilson of the U.P.C.

Writing is a little faint, spelling could be Connor or Connar

Julie

[Jack]

Hi Julie & Andy,

Julie, the 1851 census has James as aged 25, making for a birth about 1825. DC ages, as you know, aren't always correct - the informant didn't know his parents' names, and maybe his age was a bit of a guess?

Andy, i hope you fare better at the Watt Library! This is the only Agnes CONNOR i can see in Greenock 1841 that suits agewise.
The other one is Agnes CONNAR 32, but she is with a Thomas 38 - and all this family were b Ireland except the last child of 1yr.
--
1841 cens 564 Ed 28 p 1 (Greenock - St Thomas)
Low Vennel.
Jane CONNOR, 38, victualler, b RFW
Agnes CONNOR, 14 -- b RFW
Janet CONNOR, 11 -- b RFW
John CONNOR, 5 -- b RFW
Jane CONNOR, 3 -- b RFW
Mary CONNOR, 1 -- b RFW
/Allan McKECHNIE, 14, metal foundry, b RFW
--
But can't see this family together in 1851.

Jack

[DavidWW]

On James & Agnes "Banns" marriage cert. 26th Nov 1850

Says... James King baker son of the late Duncan King clockmaker in Greenock, and Agnes Connor daughter of the late John Connor labourer in Greenock, both residing in the Old Parish were booked the 8th and married 26th November 1850 by Rev Robert Wilson of the U.P.C.

Writing is a little faint, spelling could be Connor or Connar

Julie

Julie

You're very fortunate to have that level of information in the record of the banns or "proclamation", - most records don't include info on the parents.

[DavidWW]

.....snipped ........Victoria, Australia I believe based there certificates on the Scottish style, lot of info...I am very unlucky to have parents unknown when he was married with six children.
Regards Julie

I'm fascinated to know the source of this info..........

From what I know up to now the dates don't make sense, - Victoria introduced state records of BMDs on 31st March 1853, - until it's taken into account that there were actually 8 or 9 attempts to pass a Bill in the Westminster parliament before the successsful Act of 1854 that introduced state recording of BMDs in Scotland on 1st January 1855, - the earliest attempt identified so far was in 1828.

The Scottish authorities consulted widely in the couple of decades prior to the 1854 Act, including contact with the Statistical Society in London, and insurance companies based there....... and an actuary from one of those companies who was also a leading light in the Statistical Society emigrated to Oz, - either the late 1840s or early 1850s, - can't recall for the moment where I've archived this info ................ he later became the Registrar General ..... just found some records...... he was William ARCHER and arrived in Victoria in 1850 or 1852 ......

Davie

[StewL]

Hello All

The state of Victoria, as Davie stated did not come into existence untl 1853, prior to that records were under "The Port Philip Settlement"
With the records administered by the colony of New South Wales, there are records available on fiche and CD under the Pioneer Index, which here in Oz are obtainable for viewing at state libraries free to view.
Whether they are available overseas in libraries is unknown to me at this stage.
Port Philip was first officially settled in 1835.

Probably not much help to Julie, but thought I would throw this in anyway.

[Andy]

Hi Y'all,

Sorry for the delay but I've been on Holiday (not anywhere nice - just away from computers) for a few days.

I made it up to the Watt VERY briefly a week last Saturday.

The 1822 - 1823 Trade Directory for Port Glasgow has Duncan King, Watchmaker & Jeweller at Fore Street, Port Glasgow.

This was not a residential address. There were other Kings on Fore Street with businesses. Most notably, Matthew sr. & jr who were shipping Agents/Owners whose residential address was Shore Street.

King was not a common name in Port Glasgow at this time, even by 1841 there were only a few families bearing the name.

The next Trade directory has no reference to Duncan in the area but has a Widow, Mrs King, at Shore Street. She remains at Shore Street until 1831 - 1832, thereafter disappears.

The Typhoid deaths I mentioned before were, in fact, Cholera deaths in 1832. ONE King is listed, "Mrs King died at Springbank, Port Glasgow, 1st May 1832."

The local newspaper also had another couple death notice, "Mrs. King, Ramsay's Land, Kirk Street, Port Glasgow died 5th August 1832.

AND

"Mary King, formerly of Port Glasgow, died at 8 New Bridge Street, Glasgow on the 12th June 1833." (think this was a daughter of a Daniel King who married a John Park Fleming)

I have my doubts about either of these being your direct relations because in 1841 in Prince's Street Port Glasgow there is:

KING Helen F 55 Independent Renfrewshire
KING Eliza F 16 Independent Overseas - Foreign
POLLOCK Margt. F 39 Female Servant Outside Census County (1841)

Coincidentally? in 1852 the newspaper has a birth announcement: "Daughter born to Mr & Mrs James King, Prince's Street, Port Glasgow, 18th April 1852" (obviously not one of yours).

There are only a couple of Duncan Kings born in the area ONE sticks outlike a sore thumb!

Duncan Christening: 15 JUN 1788 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

His Parents were Robert and Mary Brown (LOOK AT THE NAME OF THE LODGING HOUSE KEEPER)

This Duncan had a brother, Robert who married Mary McCauslan and produced an Emilia 1805

He also had a sister, Mary who (are you ready) married a John Bell in Port Glasgow producing:

1. John Bell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 20 SEP 1824 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

2. Robert King Bell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 JUN 1825 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

3. John Bell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 17 JUN 1823 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

4. John Bell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 20 SEP 1824 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

5. Robert King Bell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 JUN 1825 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

6. Mary Brown Bell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 24 JUL 1827 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

7. Mary Brown Bell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 24 JUL 1827 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

8. ROBERT KING BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 JUN 1825 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

9. JOHN BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 20 SEP 1821 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

10. JOHN BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 JUL 1823 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

11. MARY BROWN BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 AUG 1827 Port Glasgow, Renfrew, Scotland

(Have a look at the Bells with Mary Brown).

So it REALLY looks like we've got the right family and there is a very good chance that you'll get MUCH further back.

Hope this was worth waiting for.

[Andy]

Oh! By the way, there is only one reference to your James King in the Trade Directories for Greenock in 1855 - 1856. James King, Baker, Sugarhouse Lane.

I'll check earlier directories for Robert and Duncan or his brothers.

1. JOHN KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 07 NOV 1779 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

2. WILLIAM KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 11 MAR 1781

3. WILLIAM KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 12 MAR 1781 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

4. ARCHIBALD KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 17 APR 1778

5. ARCHIBALD KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 19 APR 1778 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

6. ROBERT KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 22 SEP 1776

7. ROBERT KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 29 SEP 1776 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

8. JAMES KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 05 DEC 1784 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

9. ALEXANDER KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 OCT 1782 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

10. DUNCAN KING - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 15 JUN 1788 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

[JulieC]

Hi Andy....I am on my knees...thankyou, thankyou, thankyou

I would also like to thank Jack, Wilma, David, Stew for all the help & advice.
I have been researching for 3 yrs and met wonderful people and then you come across people like Andy who bend over backwards to help.

My sincere thanks
Julie
Brisbane, Australia

[Andy]

Made it up to the Watt on Friday after work before the fatherly "Taxi Service" resumed.

An inordinate amount of the Port Glasgow and Greenock male Kings died very young. (I've left my notes at home but, from memory)

I suspect two of Duncan's brothers, Alexander and Archibald to have died before they were 50, Alexander, a Tobacconist/Grocer who lived at Sugerhouse Lane died in 1831 and Archibald, his elder brother in 1818. Duncan appears in the earliest Trade Directory 1822 - 1823 available but but not the next year.

The well-to-do Mathew King sr died in 1832 his son, Matthew in 1848 age 41. Brother to Matthew sr, was Captain John King who for a while (between about 1815 and 1825) lived in Tobago, he also died young. He lived at Springbank and his widow Mary Colquhoun died in 1832 (his youngest son DUNCAN was born in Port Glasgow in 1826). Another brother, William had plantations in the West Indies and also died before 50 leaving a posterity some of whom returned to Port Glasgow.

Despite Helen King being named head of the house in Prince's Street, Port Glasgow in 1841 the trade directories give "Miss King" as the occupier from 1840 - 1848. Eliza King is listed as being born in foreign parts and may not have been Helen's daughter, Helen could have been a widowed aunt.

Two Matthew Kings were born in Port Glasgow in the 1770's the first married Jane Leitch and moved to Greenock. The other Matthew married Agnes Robinson.

It will take a considerable amount of time to sort these families but it should be possible.