Please Help

[Jockbird]

Hi Pauline,

I've just googled for Samuel Breen, just in case he appears anywhere else, and I found the following information on the website for the Durham County Records Office (you do need to scroll down a bit once you're on the page to see this info):

Ref No. D/HH 3/9/47
March 1892
(1) John James Addison of Middleton in Teesdale, mason
(2) George R. Addison of Middleton in Teesdale
(3) Mary Jane Dent, wife of John Dent of Thringarth, Lunesdale, Romaldkirk
(4) Samuel Breen of Barnard Castle, rope maker
Draft conveyance by (1), (2) and (3), for their respective thirds, to (4) of a messuage etc. on the north side of Galgate
Consideration: £250
(1 file)

Ref No. D/HH 3/9/48
March 1892
(1) Samuel Breen
(2) George R. Addison of Middleton in Teesdale, mason
Draft mortgage of messuage on north side of Galgate for £200
(1 file)

It looks to me like he may have bought where he was living in the 1891 census. I don't know if it would tell you any more info for going back but it may tell you more about him in 1892.

If you were interested in getting this information the website is:- http://www.durham.gov.uk/recordoffice/r ... Blenkinsop

I'm afraid I couldn't find anything else.

I don't know if you've ordered from the GRO before but each document is £7 (unless it's gone up for 2007!). Getting the birth & marriage certificate is the best option as you don't have a census with him with his parents.

Good luck with your search
Donna
x

[Jockbird]

Me again,

Just had a look for any Breen marriages in the area where Samuel was born and there is this one:

Marriages Sep 1854

District Vol Page
Bousfield Cuthbert Teesdale 10a 199
Breen John Teesdale 10a 199
Hutchinson Margaret Teesdale 10a 199
Peacock Ann Teesdale 10a 199


There is also this death:

Deaths Sep 1856

BREEN John Teesdale 10a 79

And this one:

Deaths Jun 1860

Breen Margaret Teesdale 10a 95

Now, this could be a wild goose chase, so I'll apologise now and it might be best to get the opinions of those on here who are much better at this than me but they may be a couple worth bearing in mind. Their names match those in the marriage, ie it was possibly Margaret Hutchinson that married John Breen and it would explain why there are no parents with Samuel in the 1861 and 1871 census. If it is them, it's very sad.

Best wishes
Donna
x

[pollywolly1]

Oh my goodness how do you do it ?
Thankyou sooooooooooo much
Why did i hit a dead end ? i must be doing something wrong, or maybe im just thick Im off to library tomorrow to get some books on how to research your family history.
Ive sat on this darned computer till 3am in the morning coming up with zilch
How do you know where to search as im following links from 1 site to the next, is it practice ?
Thankyou again its after midnight, and im writing a list of cert i need to get, and i enjoy it, how sad am i !!!!
You are all so great, my husband is like a dog with 2 tails.

Pauline

[SarahND]

Donna,
Great additions to the story! Now I'm sure you see there is a further complication... If Margaret is Samuel's mother, as seems likely, and John died in Sept 1856... ahem! He can't be Samuel's father two years later.

More detective work to be done! Would there be church session records or something that might refer to the alleged father?
Regards,
Sarah

[Jockbird]

OMG Sarah It was so late last night that my maths totally failed me. Even if it was the last thing that John Breen did, it still would be pushing dates.

Right Pauline, bear those people in mind but you may want to hold fire on their certificates until you get Samuel's marriage & birth certs.

Off to do more looking now....back to those BMDs!

Donna
x

p.s. Sarah, not sure about the Church Records, I've not had to do that yet with any of my South of the Borders.

[SarahND]

I've been having an interesting interlude with the Samuel Brooksbanks of the area, in case she named him after his father. There don't appear to be any Brookbanks, just Brooksbank. The family is from Yorkshire, but there's no obvious candidate for Sam's father. At least none from a place in Yorkshire close to Barnard Castle.

A likely candidate for Margaret Hutchinson might be the Margaret found in Staindrop, Durham in 1851. It's only about 6 miles from Barnard Castle.

Peter Hutchinson, head, 58, joiner, born in Staindrop
Ann Hutchinson, wife, 58, born in Staindrop
Hannah Hutchinson, daur, 25, born in Staindrop
Henry Hutchinson, son, 23, Shoe Maker, born in Staindrop
Margaret Hutchinson, daur, 17, born in Staindrop
Sarah Hutchinson, daur, 12, born in Staindrop
John Hutchinson, son, 8, born in Staindrop

Well, that's all for the moment, but this family certainly is proving interesting!
Regards,
Sarah

[Jockbird]

I'm back.....now these are just things to be thrown into the mix to prove or disprove, sometimes we have to move sideways to get backwards....if you get my drift!

Sticking with Teesdale there is this birth which falls in the right time frame for John & Margaret being parents:

Births Sep 1855

Breen Robert James Teesdale 10a 164

Could be a sibling...could be just a wee lad with the same surname. Whoever this wee chap is, he unfortunately passed away not long after and his death is registerd in 1st quarter 1856. Which could be why wee Samuel is all on his own by 1861 census.

Going with Anne's entry of :

Births Dec 1858

Breen Sam Brooksbanks Teesdale 10a 165

Could the Brooksbanks bit be a reference to a father? It's just I've had some wee illegitimates in my tree and sometimes the mother did that as a way of naming the father...better stil I've got one who named her daughter after the alleged father's mother, they did go onto marry once she could fit in her wedding dress! There is a Lancelot Brooksbanks listed as being married in Durham in 1856.......not wishing to cast aspersions on him.

It is infuriating with the English system, with SP you could have abused your credit card and had an answer in minutes.

As I say, these are all just things to bear in mind but you need to get that marriage certificate and birth one so we've actual facts to go on. You may then find that some of the above fits in....then again in may not!

Keep us posted.

Donna
x

p..s in answer to you earlier quetion as to 'how do we do it', well I've learnt an awful lot from the good people on this site and from that I've been able to pick up bits and pieces and apply it myself. Also make the most of free resources like FreeBMD, the IGI at Family Search...although it wasn't up to much on this one.....and always google the name or place you are looking for, you'd be amazed at what you uncover sometimes.

[Jockbird]

Sarah,

Great minds think alike! I was doing my digging and drafting at the same time. Safety in numbers is good!

Donna
x

[SarahND]

Safety in numbers is good!

If they try to put us away in the loony bin they'll have to deal with both of us at once Best stick together...
Sarah

[pollywolly1]

Hi Sarah, anne, Donna,
Ive ordered birth certs for Sam Brookbank Breen , and wee Robert James Breen, the English ordering service is not as great as Scotland, they didnt give me any info i have to wait on them arriving, the Scottish GPRO was great they gave me info from birth cert for Margaret Heron, parents names even gave me date of her death, they where great. South of the border very clinical.

Thankyou for hard work ladies, great detective work, its really exciting.
Pauline xx