McNeil/Thomson of Greenock

[Alan SHARP]

OOP's Talk about trying to teach how to suck eggs ! Please keep up the dialogue with the forum, as there are many here who will walk the journey with you, and offer an informed second opinion. [I won't use the word expert.] PS: Was THOMSON the family line of Scott's that came to NZ ?

Alan SHARP.

[bk313]

Alan,

One of the Thomson's grandaughter's went to New Zealand. McNeil is the surname. I believe I may have found Henrietta (McDougall) Bell's family, thanks to Sarah's finding of her parents James and Agnes. I think Henrietta's siblings may be Peter, Elizabeth, Robert and Agnes.

From the 1851 census:

MCDOUGALL James Head M M 47 Jobbing Gardiner Wigtownshire - Portpatrick
MCDOUGALL Agnes Wife M F 45 Lanarkshire - Glasgow
MCDOUGALL Peter Son U M 16 Dyer Lanarkshire - Glasgow
MCDOUGALL Elizabeth Dau U F 12 Scholar Lanarkshire - Strathbungo
MCDOUGALL Agnes Dau U F 7 Lanarkshire - Glasgow
MCDOUGALL Robert Son U M 5 Lanarkshire - Glasgow
MCDOUGALL Henrietta Dau U F 2 Lanarkshire - Glasgow

Let's hope I am right!!!

BK

[SarahND]

I think you're right, BK, although finding James' birth will be a challenge! He changes occupations and birthplaces on every census!

1851 Portpatrick, Wigtownshire
1861 Inch, Aberdeenshire
1871 Inch, Wigtonshire
1881 Wigtonshire

I would disregard the Aberdeenshire one-- someone just got mixed up which Inch was meant. When I ask google maps to find Inch, Wigtownshire, it gives me an isolated farm... but only 8 miles from Portpatrick, so in the right neighbourhood

All the best,
Sarah

[Alan SHARP]

Greetings BK

Pleased to see that Sarah has been able to find info for you. I asked about Thomson because the surnames of Bell & Thomson have been associated with my community for over 100 years, and they also came here from South Auckland, like my Grand Father. I believe all had Scottish roots.

Alan SHARP.

[bk313]

@ Sarah,

Yeah I agree, I can't seem to find James McDougall's birth or parents. That one is going to be challenging. I am hoping at some point I get a family member with an uncommon Scottish name! Regarding the geography, I have found or it may seem that sometimes towns/cities change listings through Scottish history. Meaning the name either changes or switch counties or something along those lines. I'll have to educate myself on Scottish municipality history.

@ Allan,

I wouldn't doubt that my great aunt who moved to NZ may have followed an uncle/aunt or great uncle/aunt to NZ. Either one could have been a Thomson or Bell. I haven't really researched much into the siblings of all my ggp's yet. Does seem odd that just one of the children would move that far away.

I find Thomson to be an interesting surname. I had never seen it spelled like that until I started researching my family. Seems fairly common in Scotland though. Up until the research, I have only ever seen Thompson.

BK

[bk313]

Some updates and roadblocks:

GGGGF Andrew McNeil's (b. 1855) parents were James McNeil b. 1824 and Martha McPherson b.1829. He had 3 sisters, Catherine, Margaret and Jane. Martha had brothers John and Richard and a sister Mary. Their mother was Catherine McPherson b. 1796. She had a sister Mary McLean b. 1797 who had 3 children Jean, John Ann. I can not find Catherine's husband.

GGGGM Christina McNeil (Wallace) dad was John Wallace b. 1835. Siblings were Hector, Peter, Isabella, John, Duncan and Mary. I can not find her mother.

GGGGGFJames McDougall b. 1804 parents were Martha and Allen (I believe). His children were Peter, Elizabeth, Agnes, Robert, and Henrietta b. 1849 (my GGGGM).

Henrietta married John Clark Bell. His siblings were Isabella, Mary and Margaret. Their kids were Henrietta, Thomas, Robert, Peter, Joseph, Henry, James, John and Agnes b. 1865 (my GGGM)

GGGF Angus Thomson's siblings were Alexander, Sarah, Margaret, Damuel (Samuel/Daniel?). Sister Margaret married a Thomas Totten. Angus' grandparents, my GGGGGP, I believe were Alexander Thomson and Mary Douglas, but I am not sure.

I am stuck on the McNeil line at James b. 1824. I have not gotten further on James McPhail and his wife Isabella (Quinn), though I have a picture of them! I have some possibilities for Elizabeth McAllister, Donald Thomson's wife, but not sure I am close. I am stuck on Bell's and McDougall's at the turn of the century.

How do you guys go back on the female side, especially if maiden name is unknown and without a marriage certificate? I have had some success going back paternally with some luck maternally because an in law or something would be living with them at time of census.

I was lucky with some of the family, as many generations lived on the same street and even the same house for long periods of time! How do you connect the dots if person moves around frequently? Or is it just trial and error?

I may take a break with this side for a little bit because of my roadblocks. I have some family from Nova Scotia that I can go back to 1860's, but I have the feeling they emigrated from Scotland, so I'll be back in Scotland censuses again!

Oh does anybody here use Geni.com as a platform to fill in family trees? I like it. If not, what do others use?

BK

(edit. I think I just found Martha McPherson and James McNeil wedding certificate married July 22 1850 at West Or Old Parish,Greenock,Renfrew,Scotland. Martha's father is John McPherson while James' father is Robert. I think the problem is that it is written as "Macneil" which would have caused me not to find it)

[denigal]

On your forum I was delighted to finally find my Scottish clan in Greenock, and maybe some 3rd or 4th cousins. You mentioned that you were surprised that only one person had ventured south of the equator to NZ. Well my ancestor James Mcdougal Bell (Agnes' brother) travelled to Australia as a young man in C1880's. He married my Gt Grandmother Elizabeth Duryea in 1891 in the New South Wales country town of Deniliqin. I have had trouble tracing him to Scotland because I could not find him on Australian Shipping and Immigration records and also on his death certificate, in 1940, only his Mother's christian name Henrietta was given, no Father's name. So you can imagine how overjoyed I was to find all these new Bells. James and Elizabeth had 6 children Agnes,Daisy, Henrietta, Alice, James Mcdougal, Jack and a stepdaughter,Edith. James didn't marry and so sadly the Mcdougal family name ended here on our famiy line.
I look forward to adding more information at a later date.

[Russell]

Hi Denigal and welcome to TalkingScot

A long running series of posts like this gives ample scope for Google searches to pick out names and attract attention. We find it very satisfying when family links can be established and mutual ties be made. All too often the only way of following your direct family line is to follow up some of the side branches and search using every possible name variant you can think of. when that doesn't work one of our members can usually supply yet another variation of the name spelling which does the trick.
Glad you found us

Russell

[denigal]

My husband and I will be visiting Greenock from Australia in June 2015. This is the home of ny ancestors john Clark Bell & Henrietta Bell ( McDougal). My great Grandfather was their son James McDougal Bell. My question is: are there any gravestones in Greenock for my Bell or McDougal ancestors.? Is there a particular website where I might find gravestone registration.?
Many thanks Lorraine