Note that there were two separate filmings of the OPRs, with the second (I think!) of slightly better quality in that the framing was better, i.e. marginal notes were more likely to be picked up.
It's far from uncommon to find an entry "shoehorned" in at the very top or bottom of a page, or right at the very left- or righthand margin. Quite often the size of the writing will be smaller, even tiny !
David
Bell.....
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Max Tone
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:26 am
Maxton Roots
Hi folks,
My Bell ancestors came from Cockburnspath, Berwickshire, but Maxton ones from Perthshire. I'm researching all known Maxton lines & have a chart of the group that included Elizabeth Maxton who married Peter Bell in 1787. Her parents were John Maxton & Janet Murdoch from Trinity Gask parish.
I think John was born 1732 at Ardunie, Madderty, father Robert Maxton; unproven, but most other Johns eliminated.
Robert Maxton is thought to be the one baptised in 1703 Tibbermore, father Robert Maxton who was living in Gask parish at the time.
This Robert senior was a miller at Keillour, Clathymore & Gask, was an elder of Trinity Gask kirk & was son of David Maxton who died at Ardchellie, Methven in 1687
David had several recorded brothers Jon, Robert, George, William & Patrick plus a sister Isobel, but no parents mentioned in family wills.
Best guess for his father is David Maxton (alive 1630s), son of Robert Maxton, tenant in Cultoquhey from 1581, who died by about 1620.
This may be the same as Robert Maxton burgess of Perth, proven as son of Oliver, son of John, son of Andrew who was probably son of Robert de Maxton, 1st of Cultoquhey, since Andrew Maxton witnessed a charter of Robert's in 15th century.
If anyone wants copies of the text charts, mail me on RobATMaxtone-Graham.com
Merry Christmas,
Rob
@ changed to AT to prevent spamming....Moderator
My Bell ancestors came from Cockburnspath, Berwickshire, but Maxton ones from Perthshire. I'm researching all known Maxton lines & have a chart of the group that included Elizabeth Maxton who married Peter Bell in 1787. Her parents were John Maxton & Janet Murdoch from Trinity Gask parish.
I think John was born 1732 at Ardunie, Madderty, father Robert Maxton; unproven, but most other Johns eliminated.
Robert Maxton is thought to be the one baptised in 1703 Tibbermore, father Robert Maxton who was living in Gask parish at the time.
This Robert senior was a miller at Keillour, Clathymore & Gask, was an elder of Trinity Gask kirk & was son of David Maxton who died at Ardchellie, Methven in 1687
David had several recorded brothers Jon, Robert, George, William & Patrick plus a sister Isobel, but no parents mentioned in family wills.
Best guess for his father is David Maxton (alive 1630s), son of Robert Maxton, tenant in Cultoquhey from 1581, who died by about 1620.
This may be the same as Robert Maxton burgess of Perth, proven as son of Oliver, son of John, son of Andrew who was probably son of Robert de Maxton, 1st of Cultoquhey, since Andrew Maxton witnessed a charter of Robert's in 15th century.
If anyone wants copies of the text charts, mail me on RobATMaxtone-Graham.com
Merry Christmas,
Rob
@ changed to AT to prevent spamming....Moderator
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paddyscar
- Site Admin
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- Location: Ontario, Canada
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RChristopher
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:20 pm
- Location: Lancashire, UK
Bell
Hi Rob
Thanks for your message about the Maxtons - great stuff. I had left my Bell line alone for a while thinking it had reached a dead end, but what do you know? I never actually got around to verifying the links up to Peter Bell and Elizabeth Maxton as it all seemed to fit, but I suppose that I should do that now. The question is how? We are going way back before registrations started - do you know where I can get good information of BMDs in that part of the world? (Apart from Ancestry, FamilySearch etc etc)
Best wishes
Richard
Thanks for your message about the Maxtons - great stuff. I had left my Bell line alone for a while thinking it had reached a dead end, but what do you know? I never actually got around to verifying the links up to Peter Bell and Elizabeth Maxton as it all seemed to fit, but I suppose that I should do that now. The question is how? We are going way back before registrations started - do you know where I can get good information of BMDs in that part of the world? (Apart from Ancestry, FamilySearch etc etc)
Best wishes
Richard
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Max Tone
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:26 am
Hi Richard,
Checked relevant Maxton chart, but find I've just put "See Jean Wall's file", which I can't find!
I do remember that Peter Bell/Liz Maxton's marriage entry shows her father as John Maxton deceased & there's no doubt about which John.
If you can get to Perth, local studies in AK Bell library have all official OPR indices for Scotland & all OPR & census films for Perthshire with free access in library + cheap printouts. Open Saturdays & late on Tue, Thur.
For post 1855 BMDs, cough up £6 for 30 credits at Scotlandspeople. One credit gets page of up to 25 search results, 5 creds each actual doc downloaded.
Let me ken of any proven descendants of this pair, please & I'll get onto Jean for new file.
Rob
Checked relevant Maxton chart, but find I've just put "See Jean Wall's file", which I can't find!
I do remember that Peter Bell/Liz Maxton's marriage entry shows her father as John Maxton deceased & there's no doubt about which John.
If you can get to Perth, local studies in AK Bell library have all official OPR indices for Scotland & all OPR & census films for Perthshire with free access in library + cheap printouts. Open Saturdays & late on Tue, Thur.
For post 1855 BMDs, cough up £6 for 30 credits at Scotlandspeople. One credit gets page of up to 25 search results, 5 creds each actual doc downloaded.
Let me ken of any proven descendants of this pair, please & I'll get onto Jean for new file.
Rob
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RChristopher
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:20 pm
- Location: Lancashire, UK
Bell
Thanks Rob
I will look into it and get back to you, but it may take some time. My Scottish line stops in about 1800 at the moment. If it is correct, then you may be able to help me go much further back. Unfortunately I live in Lancashire, so Perth is a bit more than a day trip. Nice area for a short break though!
Richard
I will look into it and get back to you, but it may take some time. My Scottish line stops in about 1800 at the moment. If it is correct, then you may be able to help me go much further back. Unfortunately I live in Lancashire, so Perth is a bit more than a day trip. Nice area for a short break though!
Richard
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RChristopher
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:20 pm
- Location: Lancashire, UK
Bell
To Sally & Rob and others who have helped,
After a couple of dead ends I have finally got hold of the marriage certificate of Robert Bell and his wife Martha (1855, Liverpool) as suggested by Sally about 6 months ago. It confirms his father as James Bell (as she thought). One of the witnesses is another Bell, Adam, probably Robert's uncle.
This makes it pretty much certain that my Bells are descended from Peter Bell and Elizabeth Maxton, and I suppose means that Rob and I share a common ancestor from a few hundred years ago. It also means I can add Rob's Maxton info to my family tree, so I shall be emailing him shortly.
Thanks to all.
Richard
After a couple of dead ends I have finally got hold of the marriage certificate of Robert Bell and his wife Martha (1855, Liverpool) as suggested by Sally about 6 months ago. It confirms his father as James Bell (as she thought). One of the witnesses is another Bell, Adam, probably Robert's uncle.
This makes it pretty much certain that my Bells are descended from Peter Bell and Elizabeth Maxton, and I suppose means that Rob and I share a common ancestor from a few hundred years ago. It also means I can add Rob's Maxton info to my family tree, so I shall be emailing him shortly.
Thanks to all.
Richard
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Max Tone
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:26 am
Hi Richard & Sally,
Many thanks for all the info, which I've amalgamated into a draft 'descendants of Peter Bell & Elizabeth Maxton' file, which Richard already has, along with Maxton files. If you want copies, Sally, mail me, please; address above.
Ran some checks on Perth shoemakers today; unfortunately, their records were destroyed in a fire sometime prior to 1745, but some apprenticeship indentures survive amongst general burgh records.
Charles Bell was apprenticed to shoemaker John Angus in 1731, then himself took on apprentices in 1753 & 1765 & rented a shop below Guildhall in 1767. He was a Burgess of Perth by 1753 & had been a Baillie on the council by 1765.
Only one likely Charles Bell shows in Perth OPRs, b. 2/7/1716 to David Bell & Jane Rodhwne. Just the right age to be an apprentice 15 years later. Had one brother Alexander, remainder sisters.
Peter & James Bells may also show up in the Perth Deeds indices (Archives at AK Bell lib, Perth), if they were in business; loans, debts, mortgages, small claims, unpaid bills, etc.
Of course the most famous Perth Bell's is the Whisky!
Rob
Many thanks for all the info, which I've amalgamated into a draft 'descendants of Peter Bell & Elizabeth Maxton' file, which Richard already has, along with Maxton files. If you want copies, Sally, mail me, please; address above.
Ran some checks on Perth shoemakers today; unfortunately, their records were destroyed in a fire sometime prior to 1745, but some apprenticeship indentures survive amongst general burgh records.
Charles Bell was apprenticed to shoemaker John Angus in 1731, then himself took on apprentices in 1753 & 1765 & rented a shop below Guildhall in 1767. He was a Burgess of Perth by 1753 & had been a Baillie on the council by 1765.
Only one likely Charles Bell shows in Perth OPRs, b. 2/7/1716 to David Bell & Jane Rodhwne. Just the right age to be an apprentice 15 years later. Had one brother Alexander, remainder sisters.
Peter & James Bells may also show up in the Perth Deeds indices (Archives at AK Bell lib, Perth), if they were in business; loans, debts, mortgages, small claims, unpaid bills, etc.
Of course the most famous Perth Bell's is the Whisky!
Rob
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bgw3133
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:17 am
- Location: Texas, USA
Bell, James Ritchie
Richard, Sally - all,
I located descendant of Jas. Ritchie BELL; Craig W. Bell who lives in North Carolina, USA. I contacted his wife today and gave her my e-m address for him when he arrives home next week. He has two CD's in Salt Lake City on James R.B. son of James & MARY Janet Ritchie according to Internet.
James Ritchie B. m. 18 Aug 1845 Perth - Trinity [College Parish] Church, Edinburgh same church where my Janet Bell (daur. of Peter BELL and Elizabeth MAXTON) had her two oldest children christened. James R. m. Elizabeth Ross Walker. James R. d. 24 Jun 1863 Perth. He was b. 23 Aug 1821 & chr 26 Aug 1821 at St. Paul's Church, East Church, Perth by Rev. James Esdaile same church/minister as my Janet Bell married Thomas Clark 4 Jul 1823.
I think this is all very telling that my Janet BELL Clark and James Ritchie BELL were related. His dad, James b1788, would have been member of same parish in 1820's and same parish in Edinburgh eventho' Janet had long passed. They apparently stayed close until Janet died.
I located descendant of Jas. Ritchie BELL; Craig W. Bell who lives in North Carolina, USA. I contacted his wife today and gave her my e-m address for him when he arrives home next week. He has two CD's in Salt Lake City on James R.B. son of James & MARY Janet Ritchie according to Internet.
James Ritchie B. m. 18 Aug 1845 Perth - Trinity [College Parish] Church, Edinburgh same church where my Janet Bell (daur. of Peter BELL and Elizabeth MAXTON) had her two oldest children christened. James R. m. Elizabeth Ross Walker. James R. d. 24 Jun 1863 Perth. He was b. 23 Aug 1821 & chr 26 Aug 1821 at St. Paul's Church, East Church, Perth by Rev. James Esdaile same church/minister as my Janet Bell married Thomas Clark 4 Jul 1823.
I think this is all very telling that my Janet BELL Clark and James Ritchie BELL were related. His dad, James b1788, would have been member of same parish in 1820's and same parish in Edinburgh eventho' Janet had long passed. They apparently stayed close until Janet died.
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bgw3133
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:17 am
- Location: Texas, USA
BELL - Maxton
Sally,
I am a newbie. ==What is your BELL ancestry?==
My ancestry:
1) James Bell b. Perth (city) m. 1752 in Perth to May Wedderspoon b. Fowlis Wester. Their son
2) Peter BELL b. Perth (city) m. 1787 in Perth to Elizabeth Maxton b. Findo Gask, Perthshire. Their dau.
3) Janet BELL b. Perth m. 1823 in Perth to Thomas Clark of Kirklisten -on license. They moved to Edinburgh from Perth soon after their 1st child, Alexander was born or maybe he was born in Edinburgh. 2d was Elizabeth - both Alex. and Elizabeth chr. 1827 Edinburgh.
4) 3d was my THOMAS *B. Clark b. 1830 Edinburgh.
* All 3 Clark children had middle name/initial B or BELL. My Thomas changed his to Warren sometime between 1850 census and 1852 when he applied for US citizenship.
It was deaths of Thomas B/ Warren Clark (Jr) and sister Elizabeth BELL Clark (Fanning) in Sep 1866 that her husband sent a letter to Adam BELL in Edinburgh and Elisha BELL in New Orleans, Louisiana about the deaths. This set me on my trek to locate Adam BELL b. 1794.
Elizabeth & Thomas (Jr) were adopted by Presbyterian minister Rev. John Bliss Warren & 2d wife Joanna Kent (1st Rev. Southmayd and 2d Rev. Warren). Warren & Joanna has married in Feb 1839.
Sometime before Jan 1840 Thomas B. (Jr) was adopted but not known if Alexander was adopted. Rev. Warren & Joanna did not yet have Elizabeth Bell Clark, but was hoping soon. If not adopted then Alexander was reared as their own. He was probably considered too old at 15 to be adopted. The children kept their Clark name. Only two evenings ago I was looking through my old ablum and found Thomas's request for chitizenship in 1852. All this was in Ascension Parish (between Baton Rouge & New Orleans), Louisiana.
About 1856/57 they left New Orleans area where Elizabeth's husband was editor of Louisiana Statesman (which he sometimes published in 3 languages: English, French, & German), for Texas where Elizabeth & husband & family and my Thomas, his bride Elizabeth Lowe, lived until their deaths. Much later came me - 3 generations later.
Jean
I am a newbie. ==What is your BELL ancestry?==
My ancestry:
1) James Bell b. Perth (city) m. 1752 in Perth to May Wedderspoon b. Fowlis Wester. Their son
2) Peter BELL b. Perth (city) m. 1787 in Perth to Elizabeth Maxton b. Findo Gask, Perthshire. Their dau.
3) Janet BELL b. Perth m. 1823 in Perth to Thomas Clark of Kirklisten -on license. They moved to Edinburgh from Perth soon after their 1st child, Alexander was born or maybe he was born in Edinburgh. 2d was Elizabeth - both Alex. and Elizabeth chr. 1827 Edinburgh.
4) 3d was my THOMAS *B. Clark b. 1830 Edinburgh.
* All 3 Clark children had middle name/initial B or BELL. My Thomas changed his to Warren sometime between 1850 census and 1852 when he applied for US citizenship.
It was deaths of Thomas B/ Warren Clark (Jr) and sister Elizabeth BELL Clark (Fanning) in Sep 1866 that her husband sent a letter to Adam BELL in Edinburgh and Elisha BELL in New Orleans, Louisiana about the deaths. This set me on my trek to locate Adam BELL b. 1794.
Elizabeth & Thomas (Jr) were adopted by Presbyterian minister Rev. John Bliss Warren & 2d wife Joanna Kent (1st Rev. Southmayd and 2d Rev. Warren). Warren & Joanna has married in Feb 1839.
Sometime before Jan 1840 Thomas B. (Jr) was adopted but not known if Alexander was adopted. Rev. Warren & Joanna did not yet have Elizabeth Bell Clark, but was hoping soon. If not adopted then Alexander was reared as their own. He was probably considered too old at 15 to be adopted. The children kept their Clark name. Only two evenings ago I was looking through my old ablum and found Thomas's request for chitizenship in 1852. All this was in Ascension Parish (between Baton Rouge & New Orleans), Louisiana.
About 1856/57 they left New Orleans area where Elizabeth's husband was editor of Louisiana Statesman (which he sometimes published in 3 languages: English, French, & German), for Texas where Elizabeth & husband & family and my Thomas, his bride Elizabeth Lowe, lived until their deaths. Much later came me - 3 generations later.
Jean