missing father !

[alastair01]

Hi Andrew I agree. Although it's hard to let go of the search I'm with you in the fact that I need the proof that the people I'm finding are really relatives. I think the important thing is to not let your heart rule your head in such instances. there will always be an overwhelming desire to get earlier and earlier records, but the liklihood of going wrong significantly increases - and also a waste of money !

I thank you and all who have contributed to my search, if I can find something concrete I will share it with you as I value your help and feedback.

Best regards Alastair

[alastair01]

Hi just to let you know I emailed the Parish church in Langholme to see if they had any information and they very kindly checked all 7 churches in the area and found reference to the surname Hinchelwood in the parish of Westerkirk and they found an enscription as follows:

In memory of JOHN ELLIOT who died at Glendinning 6th March 1825 aged 87. And JANET SCOTT his spouse who died at Langholm 7th June 1820 aged 83 years. Also of their son ROWLAND who died in infancy. Also MATTHEW ELLIOT their son who died at Glendinning January 17th 1861 aged 95 years. Also EUPHEMIA HINCHELWOOD his wife who died at Glendinning December 12th 1856 aged 89 years.

so things do appear to be correct

[AndrewP]

Hi Alastair,

A great find from the local knowledge - well done to your contact at Langholm Parish Church.

All the best,

AndrewP

[trish1]

Wow - apart from being a wonderful find - for any time period, but especially 18th/19th century - what long lives they all led (excepting the infant).

Trish

[alastair01]

Hi I've been going through my records and I have come across something that I would like to get some help with if possible. I was looking at William Elliot's and Margaret Nicol's census records and I came across the following that I cannot account for. Both the censuses 1851 and 1861 show that william and margaret have the same place of birth so I have that common link, Dunfrireshire and Northumberland.
I have worked out the childrens birth years by deducting their age from the census year and I get the following:

In 1851 the children are listed as surname Elliot (the eveness of the years of bith is strange as well)
James born 1837
Margaret born 1838
Jepie (can't make out the name) born 1840
Mathew born 1842
John born 1844
William born 1846
Elfy (can't make it out) born 1848
Adam born 1850

In 1861 the children are listed as surname Elliot
James born 1837
Euphemia born 1848 (could this be elfy as same year of birth)
Adam born 1850
Elizabeth born 1852
Dorothy born 1853
david born 1856

The common link between the the two are James and Adam giving their birth years as the same.

What I cannot find is any birth or death records of the children except James and Adam. It looks as though the children in the 1851 census (apart from James and Adam) seem to have dissapeared between 1838-1848
The date spread seems to suggest that William and Margaret lost six children and then had possibly three more later on.

Could Margaret really of had 11 children and could they have lost so many children without me being able to trace their births or deaths, Scotlands people just returns nil results for both birth and deaths for all the children ??

In the 1851 census only James (14) the eldest and Adam(1) the youngest survived to the next census in 1861 (and possibly Euphemia/Elfy)

The lack of records as I've mentioned is strange and perhaps you can shed some light on this.

For information I used ADAM ELLIOT as the person to check for in the census check which brought up these records.............sorry for the information OVERLOAD !!

[LesleyB]

Hi Alastair

Could easily be Free Kirk folks in that area, so not in OPRs...

...as I suggested earlier in this thread. Have you considered if this might be a possibility for this family? What church(es) did the chiodren get married with post 1855?
Also see Andrew's comment earlier in the thread:

Yes the three children on the 1841 census all show up on the 1851 census. The census info also goes along with the detail on the 1855 birth certificates that says they have 6 boys and 5 girls living.

In the 1851 census only James (14) the eldest and Adam(1) the youngest survived to the next census in 1861 (and possibly Euphemia/Elfy)

Just because the children are not with thier parents does not necessarliy mean they have died - they will be 10years older and would probably not be living at home when the next census came around - they will be working somewhere most likely. James the eldest may have been at home for the 1861 census for any number of reasons (out of work, visiting, not able to care for himself for one reason or another, working with his father.....)

Best wishes
Lesley

[trish1]

Hi Alastair

There is nothing strange about the "evenness" of the birth years - they are based on the age given on the census records - but this interpretation ignores the census date.
1851 census was taken on 30 March 1851. Youngest son Adam was listed as 1 year old. He would have been born between 31 Mar 1849 and 30 Mar 1850 - so actually more likely that he was born in 1849 & had not had his 2nd birthday by census time in 1851.

In 1861 - Mathew Elliot listed as age 20 - born Lochbroom, Rossshire (as per 1851) is living in the parish of Urquhart and Logie Wester - working at Milltown Farm as a shepherd

There is a possible for John Elliot - age given as 16 - birthplace (ancestry Achindrean, rossshire) working in Lochbroom as a cowherd at the Dundonnell Dairy.

William Elliott (extra 't') age 15 is listed as a "male relative" - living with Christy Elliott (aged 62) and a number of other Elliotts (who have many of the same given names as your family) - Kincardine - working as an assistant shepherd

So as Lesley mentioned - keep searching for the children away from home - the girls may be a little more tricky to find as they may have changed their surname - however married women are sometimes listed on the census with their maiden name so both names need to be checked.

Trish

PS 1851 - your Jephie may be Jessie - perhaps written as Jefsie - (the 'f' is not the right symbol, but close - http://www.smoot-family.us/oldhand/long-s.html) - I haven't looked at the image - ancestry has it transcribed as Jessie

[alastair01]

Hello wow I can't believe how much time has passed since I was last here !!
I took your advice and was able to follow the children ( the boys ) Matthew, William and john. All three went to Scarborough in Canada. I was even able to locate where they were buried all in the same cemetery which I contacted. they were able to give me photos of their grave stones which confirmed their dates and places of birth so I could be sure they were the right people. if anyone is interested I can try and post the pictures as they are very interesting and bring a sense of realness that they existed if you see what I mean. Mathew was the first person in the town to get married so I guess it must of been a settlers camp/town and perhaps the town was founded by a ships passengers, who knows. But very exciting that they were brave enough to leave Scottish shores for the unknown. I wonder how they could afford to sail or perhaps they worked their passage.

Anyway as I said I thought I would share with you all as you have always been so enthusiastic.

Kind regards Alastair

[alastair01]

Hi I would like to try and get your further help. George Elliot was born 01 July 1911. To recap his mother was Margaret Jane Elliot and he was born in Edinburgh. I found in the 1911 census that he was possibly living with a George Brown Thomson aged 40 with his wife and three sons at 14 Murdoch terrace Edinburgh as he is listed as a boarder aged 9 months. Is there anyway of knowing if his mother left him with them and why. It's difficult because the next census 1921 is not yet released so I don't know if he was still living with them. The other fact is that there is no record of a George Brown Thomson in any previous census searches prior to 1911, which indicates he came to settle in Scotland between the two dates.

[AndrewP]

Hi Alastair,

Where does the 1911 census say that George Brown Thomson was born?

All the best,

AndrewP