a bit of a brick wall

[thomsos]

My goodness Jack you have been busy
I shall go through all this info to-morrow, its too late for the old grey mater to obsorb all this info.

thank you very much for this
Sandra

[Jack]

Hi Sandra,
This is why i was asking about Jean McNAB m/s McKEAN's mother Jane MORRISON b~1811 Campsie.
It's because of the James & David McNABB who are with a MORRISON family in 1841.
(and your James & David aren't with their parents George McNAB & Elizabeth REID in 1841)
--
>GEORGE MCNAB
>ELIZABETH REID
>Marriage: 11 MAY 1817 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
>--some children
>WILLIAM McNAB Birth: 04 DEC 1817 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland [IGI submission]
>JOHN MCNAB - Birth: 01 JAN 1819 Birth: 01 JAN 1819 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
>GEORGE MCNAB - Birth: 22 NOV 1820 Barony, Lanark, Scotlan
>RICHARD MCNAB - Birth: 28 JAN 1823 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
>JAMES MCNAB - Birth: 13 DEC 1825 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
>DAVID MCNAB - Birth: 13 AUG 1828 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
>ANDREW REID MCNAB - Birth: 22 MAY 1831 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
-
>1841 census 644 Ed 154 p 3 (Glasgow - Martyrs)
>Hope Park
>George McNAB, 50, agricultural labourer, b LKS
>Elizabeth REID, 40, -------------------------b LKS
>Richard McNAB, 15, agricultural labourer, b LKS
>John DIXON, 22, agricultural labourer, b LKS
--
James & David McNABB on this 1841 census are quite near the right age...but birthplace is as Perth...
--
This was one of the more unusual 1841 censuses,
in that the enumerator actually wrote the County of birth instead of the usual Y or N etc.
Could there have been some confusion on the birthplaces of James & David McNABB?
It does say Perth, but i'm unsure if that's what it was meant to say.
Robert MORRISON (30) is clear as born Perth.
Ann MORRISON (20) was originally dittoed (as do) for Perth, but this was overwritten in a darker ink with a Y.
All below Ann were dittoed too, and i'm wondering if Perth was accidentally continued onto the top of page 13,
because Ann was originally as "do" Perth which was later amended to Y to mean Lanarkshire.
(though possibly not the enumerator's writing)
But was it forgotten that Perth should also have been changed to Lanark at the top of page 13 for James & David?
Ann Morrison (20) was the only entry in Ed 213 that has a Y - all others born in Lanarkshire had Lanark written.
--
1841 census 622 Ed 213 pp 12-13 (Barony - North East)
Milton
~Page 12~
*John MORRISON, 60, Farmer, b Perth
*And. MORRISON, 50, Distiller, b Perth
Christ. MORRISON, 35, Housekeeper, b Perth [Christ. is as a male housekeeper - but see 1851]
Will. MORRISON, 20, Servant, b Perth
Robert MORRISON, 30, Servant, b Perth
Ann MORRISON, 20, Servant, b Lanarkshire
May JOHNSTONE, 20, Servant, b Lanarkshire
Margt. MCLEOD, 25, Servant, b Lanarkshire
Will. CURRY, 30, Servant, b Lanarkshire
Walter PATERSON, 35, Servant, b Lanarkshire
Arthur PATERSON, 20, Servant, b Lanarkshire
Alex. BUCHANAN, 40, Servant , b Lanarkshire
Thomas CRAWFORD, 15, Servant, b Lanarkshire
Will. ROBB, 13, Servant, b Lanarkshire
John WATSON, 25, --- [no occupation or birthplace]
~Page 13~
James MCNABB, 14, Farm Servant, b Perth.
David MCNABB, 10, Farm Servant, b Perth.
--
1851 census 644-1 (568) Ed 8 p 7 (Glasgow City Calton - St Andrews)
30 Charlotte Street.
* John MORRISON, head, u/m 74, rtd. distiller & farmer, b Kippen, PER
* Andrew MORRISON, brother, u/m, 70, living with brother, b Kippen, PER
Christina MORRISON, servant, 62, house servant, b Kippen, PER [is this Christ. 35 from 1841? or a different person?]
(it would appear that Christina isn't a sister, but quite likely related in some way)
Kippen Parish was partly in Stirlingshire and partly in Perthshire.
----
This below looks much like the family of the above John & Andrew MORRISON.
I can't see Christina in Glasgow 1861, but she may of course be elsewhere, or had maybe died by then.
-
WILLIAM MORISON
JEAN MORISON
Marriage: 22 APR 1765 Port Of Monteith, Perth, Scotland
[on the border with STI - abt 5 miles NW of Kippen which is abt 10 miles N of Campsie]
--children?--
ELIZABETH MORISON - Christening: 21 SEP 1766 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
WILLIAM MORISON - Christening: 25 OCT 1767 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
CHRISTIAN MORISON - Christening: 05 NOV 1769 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
JEAN MORISON - Christening: 06 FEB 1772 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
JAMES MORISON - Christening: 05 JUN 1774 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
* JOHN MORISON - Christening: 01 DEC 1776 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
DAVID MORISON - Christening: 18 OCT 1778 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
* ANDREW MORISON - Christening: 12 JUN 1781 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
JOSEPH MORISON - Christening: 07 DEC 1783 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
ANN MORISON - Christening: 14 MAY 1786 Kippen, Stirling, Scotland
----
Please bear in mind all the above is only speculation for being your James & David.
(i've been clutching at straws...!)
However no harm in having a note of them in case you can see anyone or anything familiar later on.
But as it's known that James & David both lived to adulthhood, then they should be somewhere in 1841....
--
Jack

[thomsos]

Jack,
The help I receive from this site never fails to amaze me

I don't know how to thank you, you have given me lots to look into and check out, as you say David and James must have been somewhere in 1841!!


Sandra

[Jack]

Hi Sandra,

Yet another wee question - when did John McNAB (b.1819) die?
Was his mother Elizabeth REID as deceased?

Ta - Jack

[thomsos]

Hi Sandra,

Yet another wee question - when did John McNAB (b.1819) die?
Was his mother Elizabeth REID as deceased?

Ta - Jack

Jack,

John McNab (Engine Keeper)1819-1896, (district of Blackfriars)
married to:- 1, Margaret Shearer 2, Jane Allison
Parents George & Eliz McNab m.s Reid, both deceased

Sandra

[Jack]

Hi Sandra,
I'd been hoping John had died before 1868...i'm sure he'd probably have had a different opinion...!
The reason is this 1868 DC for an Elisabeth McNAB m/s REID.
If your John's death was before this date, then his DC might've said his mother wasn't deceased.
But he didn't die until 1896 - so that ends that train of thought.
--
1868 DC 644-1. 1259 (Glasgow - Central)
Elisabeth McNAB (69) d. 25 JUL 1868 at 127 Castle Street, Glasgow.
Widow of George McNAB, labourer.
Parents - John REID, labourer & Mary m/s PAUL.
Informant - John McNAB, son.
--
I don't know if this is your John & James etc. McNAB's mother Elisabeth Reid.
Some things are in favour though - but all this could well apply to another person too.

Born abt 1799 - this fits for age 40 in 1841.
Hubby - George McNAB, labourer.
Informant - a son John who you know was living in 1868.
Father - John, which is same as George & Elizabeth's 2nd son (if using a naming pattern)
Mother - Mary PAUL - son Richard has a daur Mary Paul Jeffrey McNab.
--
Nothing really against except i can't positively identify this Elisabeth in Glasgow 1851 & 1861.
If she is your Elisabeth i'd hoped she might be with one of her children in those years.
That's why i'd thought that she'd died by 1851...but possibly not...
Maybe she didn't get on with all those daurs-in-law...!
--
An outside chance that may help - if John's signature could be compared.
Has he been an informant on any certificates?
Eg - 1st wife Margaret SHEARER's DC? Daur Jane's BC? Any others?
--
Jack
ps, there is this, but very possibly a red herring with the BEATON name.
1841 census 622 Ed 213 p 16 (Barony - North East)
Provan Mill
John REID, 72, labourer, b SCT
Mary REID, 80,-------------- b SCT
Mary BEATON, 17, servant, b LKS
--
pps, thought that North East district seemed familiar....
The MORRISON family (with James & David McNABB) couldn't have been too far away.
Another coincidence?
--
>1841 census 622 Ed 213 pp 12-13 (Barony - North East)
>Milton
>*John MORRISON, 60, Farmer, b Perth
>*And. MORRISON, 50, Distiller, b Perth
>Christ. MORRISON, 35, Housekeeper, b Perth
>etc, and,
>James MCNABB, 14, Farm Servant, b Perth.
>David MCNABB, 10, Farm Servant, b Perth.
--

[thomsos]

Hi Sandra,
--
1868 DC 644-1. 1259 (Glasgow - Central)
Elisabeth McNAB (69) d. 25 JUL 1868 at 127 Castle Street, Glasgow.
Widow of George McNAB, labourer.
Parents - John REID, labourer & Mary m/s PAUL.
Informant - John McNAB, son.
--
I don't know if this is your John & James etc. McNAB's mother Elisabeth Reid.
Some things are in favour though - but all this could well apply to another person too.

Born abt 1799 - this fits for age 40 in 1841.
Hubby - George McNAB, labourer.
Informant - a son John who you know was living in 1868.
Father - John, which is same as George & Elizabeth's 2nd son (if using a naming pattern)
Mother - Mary PAUL - son Richard has a daur Mary Paul Jeffrey McNab.
--
--
An outside chance that may help - if John's signature could be compared.
Has he been an informant on any certificates?
Eg - 1st wife Margaret SHEARER's DC? Daur Jane's BC? Any others?
--
--

Jack,
I have compared John McNab sig. on Eliz McNab, ms Reid dc 1868 and wife Marg McNab ms Shearer dc 1876, and as far as I can tell they are the same, so this certainly seems to be their mother.

Sandra

[Jack]

I have compared John McNab sig. on Eliz McNab, ms Reid dc 1868 and wife Marg McNab ms Shearer dc 1876,
and as far as I can tell they are the same, so this certainly seems to be their mother.

Hi Sandra,
I do agree with you on the signatures of John McNab in 1868 & 1876 - very, very similar.

And i presume you've already got the BC for Jeanie McNAB's 15 AUG 1878 birth at 17 Glebe Street ?
But you'll have noticed some odd facts about the birth....
It wasn't registered until 1892...and father John McNAB & mother Jeanie ALLISON both signed with an X.
Suppose there could be a number of reasons why John didn't sign.
--
1881 Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 17 Glebe St
Source: FHL Film 0203648 GRO Ref Volume 644-6 EnumDist 13 Page 8
John MC NAB W 60 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Engine Driver (Chemical Wks)
Jane MC NAB 1 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur
John MC NAB 15 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Grandson Occ: Rivetter (Apprentice)
Archibald MC NAB 12 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Grandson Occ: Scholar
George MC NAB 11 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Grandson Occ: Scholar
Jean ALISON U 36 F Falkirk, Stirling, Scotland Rel: Servant Occ: Servant General (Domestic)
Matthew EASTON 13 M Larbert, Stirling, Scotland Rel: Boarder Occ: Message Boy (Grocer)
--
I know you have this 1881 census - shows the same address for wee Jeanie born 1878.
So is Jeanie the Jane that is as 1 yr old? I couldn't see an 1880 birth.
Does an 1878 birth year fit the age of Jane in 1891?
--
Jack

[thomsos]

Jack,

I think the 1yr old Jane is 1878 Jeanie.

Also I think Jeanie's birth wasn't registered until 1892, because John McNab and Jane Alison did not get married until 1891, in the 1881 census Jean Alison was a unmarried domestic servant... John did sign his marriage cert, maybe by 1892 he was not able to write. He died 1896 from Septicaemia, due to a lacerated hand wound, but I think that may have been a bit long for it to be the reason for not signing Jeanie's bc.

Sandra