KENNET(H) Dundonald area abt 1750's.....

[Peter Cowley]

Dear Raymond and Allen

Further to Archibald Crawfurd, brother of Robert (1), husband of Octavia (nee Phelp) of whose son, Archibald, we know so little, Burke's Commoners of 1835 notes Archibald, the father, to be a captain in the East Indian military. Burke's Landed Gentry has him as a Major in the 1847 edition. In the Feb 8, 1855 edition, The London Gazette notes an A. Crawfurd promoted to Colonel. In Allen's India Mail Jan-Dec 1855, it notes that A. Crawfurd of the Madras Artillery was promoted, after retirement, on November 28, 1854 to Colonel. This was an honourary rank that made him eligible for a higher pension based on a new pension scheme brought into effect after his retirement.

Beyond this info, I have found nothing so far. I am now subscribed to ancestry.com and will root around in the ancestry.ca files.

Cheers,

Peter

[Currie]

Hello Peter,

I suspect this is Archibald Crawfurd, the son.

“Nanteos: a Welsh house and its Families,” p67.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&t ... &aql=f&oq=

“Another Phelp girl, Octavia also married, a Major Archibald Crawfurd of the East India Company's Artillery. Her life was not long, for by 1826 her sister Fanny alluded to the news that ‘we hear from Mrs Crawfurd that Archibald is now at St Thomas' Mount near Madras with his little boy, and as he is not likely to be called into service again. He says the dear child is the image of its poor mother in appearance and disposition, and so remarkably healthy that there is no intention of sending him to England.'”


ALLEN'S INDIAN MAIL, 1852. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=G7c ... 22&f=false

COURT MARTIAL.
LIEUT. ARCHIBALD CRAWFURD, ARTILLERY.
Head-Quarters, Bombay, Feb. 2, 1852.—At an European General Court Martial, assembled at Ahmednuggur, on Wednesday, Jan. 28, and of which Lieut, col. W. Parlby, H.M. 10th Royal Hussars, is president, Lieut. A. Crawfurd, of the artillery, was tried on the following charges, viz:—
Charge.—Lieut A. Crawfurd, of the Bombay artillery, placed in arrest by me.
For conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman in the following instances:—
1st.—In having, at Ahmednuggur, on the night of Dec. 3, 1851, appeared in a disgraceful state of intoxication at the artillery mess-house, at an entertainment given by the officers of the artillery to the society of the station.
2nd.—In having, about an hour after he had been removed from the mess-house, and taken to his quarters in the condition described in the entertainment still in a state of intoxication.
Finding.—Guilty.
Sentence.—To be severely reprimanded.
Confirmed.
(Signed) J. Grey, Lieut. Gen., Commander-in-chief.
Head Quarters, Bombay, Feb. 2.
Remarks by the Commander-in-chief.—I do not approve of the very lenient sentence passed by the court; drunkenness, which is criminal in a soldier, is infinitely more so in an officer, and requires to be visited with greater severity than by a reprimand, but as it is an offence of rare occurrence amongst the officers of the army, I have refrained from ordering a revision.
I direct the officer commanding the artillery at Ahmednuggur to read, in the presence of his officers, the following reprimand to Lieut. Crawfurd, who is then to be released from arrest.
Reprimand.—Lieutenant Crawfurd—You have been found guilty of appearing in a disgraceful state of intoxication, a crime so degrading, that an officer convicted of it is generally considered unworthy of remaining in the army. A court martial has not only spared your commission, but sentenced you to the mildest punishment it was competent to award, and I have no wish to disturb its decision—I trust that your future conduct will prove that this lenity has not been exercised in vain.


The Gentleman's Magazine, 1852.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=7bk ... 22&f=false

“July 29. Accidentally drowned off Dewallia, Bombay Harbour, Lieut. A. Crawfurd, late of the Bombay Art. eldest son of Lieut.-Col. Crawfurd, formerly of the Madras Artillery.


You’ll find entries for the Crawfurds on the Families in British India site http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/index.php The father of the above deceased was Archibald Crawfurd Esq., Park House, Cotham near Bristol, the deceased was late of Ahmednuggar.

There lots of Crawfurd stuff there, even mention of a ship called the Bentinck.

Hope that helps,
Alan

[Peter Cowley]

Hi Raymond and Alan

Alan, indeed I am quite sure you are right about the generations.

Your additional information may be enough to close the book on the descendants of Archibald, brother of Robert (1).

Thanks Alan.

Raymond: I was delighted to receive yesterday's mail as it included a most welcoming letter from our new contact.

Thank you for the connection!

All the best,

Peter

[Peter Cowley]

Hi Alan & Raymond

As I see it Archibald brother of Robert (1) married Octavia Phelp (who happens also to be the daughter of one of my O'Brien relatives!)

1) See: Burkes, Commoners, Volume 2, 1835 where Archibald is noted as "Captain" and married to Octavia.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=QisAAAA ... rd&f=false

2) Then, in Burke's, Commoners, Volume 3, 1836, he is noted as "Major".
http://books.google.ca/books?id=qf4GAAA ... or&f=false

3) Then, in Allen’s India Mail, January to December 1855, he is noted as a retired Lt. Colonel being promoted to Honourary Colonel.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=p7cOAAA ... rd&f=false

OK, now we really don't have anything about his son yet. The Lt. Crawfurd of the court-marshal and drowning appears to be the son of a different man.

Cheers,

Peter

[Currie]

Hello Peter,

I’m not sure I agree. As I mentioned before the information on the Families in British India site has the father of the deceased Archibald as Archibald Crawfurd Esq., Park House, Cotham near Bristol. Just about everything I’m finding points at Bristol and nowhere else.

(12 April 1823?)
12. At London, Captain Archibald Crawfurd, of the Hon. Company's artillery, to Octavia, daughter of the late James Phelp. Esq. of Coston House, Leicestershire.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=nWA ... lp&f=false

The Bristol Mercury, Monday, November 22, 1824
DIED. At Madras, Octavia, wife of Capt. A. Crawfurd, and dau. of the late Col. Phelp.

The Bristol Mercury, Saturday, November 29, 1862
Colonel Crawfurd, who resided amongst us for several years, but who has recently removed to the North, is, we regret to learn, a creditor to a serious amount. The sum is stated at near £30,000, but we believe that two-thirds of the debt are secured. (this is to do with the bankruptcy of a Mr. Chick)

The Bristol Mercury, Saturday, December 6, 1862
More about the bankruptcy of George Augustus Breillat Chick. “Chick was a great professor of religion, and in that character made the acquaintance of Colonel Crawfurd, whose son he proposed to adopt, and of whom he succeeded in borrowing a sum of £9,000 on the security of a third mortgage on the indigo and other works ……”

The Bristol Mercury, Saturday, December 25, 1869
DEATHS.
On the night of the 13th inst., of heart disease, at Roseburn, Ayr, N.B., Mary Elizabeth, wife of Colonel Crawfurd, late Madras Artillery.—“Father, I will that those whom Thou hast given me be with me where I am.”

It looks like he remarried, possibly in India, after Octavia died, which makes sense.

The LDS 1881 Scottish Census transcription is now available on the new FamilySearch. https://www.familysearch.org/s/recordDe ... u8TUc%253D

Here’s the Colonel, alive and kicking at age 91, and with a daughter born in India and two servants.

Name: Archibald Crawfurd
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1790
Birthplace: Dundonald, Ayr, Scotland
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Condition: Widowed
Profession / Occupation: Retrd Colonel
Address: 5 Church Hill
Census Place: Edinburgh St Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Scotland

Name: Margaret Maria Crawfurd
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1840
Birthplace: East Indies
Relationship to Head of Household: Dau
Marital Condition: Unknown
Profession / Occupation:

Name: Elizabeth Meiklejohn
Age: 21
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1860
Birthplace: Sorn, Fife, Scotland
Relationship to Head of Household: Serv
Marital Condition: Unknown
Profession / Occupation: Gen Dom Serv

Name: Georgina Margaret Swales
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1836
Birthplace: Findhorn, Elgin, Scotland
Relationship to Head of Household: Serv
Marital Condition:
Profession / Occupation: Gen Dom Serv

You can get his death certificate from SP, also that for the assumed second wife. He died 1888 aged 98. They also have his Will and Inventory. (LIEUT.-COL. AND BREVET-COL., RETIRED LIST, 16 LEVEN TERRACE, EDINBURGH, R.A., FORMERLY OF THE H.E.I. COY.'S MADRAS ARTILLERY, D. 28/04/1888 AT EDINBURGH, TESTATE)

There may be an obituary in The Scotsman on 3rd May. http://archive.scotsman.com/search.cfm? ... tyType=all

Aberdeen Weekly Journal, Friday, May 4, 1888
“The death of Colonel Archibald Crawfurd, late of the East India Company’s army, in his 99th year, took place on the 28th ult. The deceased was the youngest son of Moses Crawfurd, of Newfield, Ayrshire.”

If you track him back using Ancestry you should be able find where he lived since his return from India and whether it was the Bristol address, or thereabouts, in 1851.

All the best,
Alan

LATER

The birth of the daughter in India is on the FIBIS site. There’s lots of important stuff there.

Alan

[rafman51]

Good day gentlemen and any Ladies here,

I have spoken to Raymond Crawfurd on the phone the other day regarding the Crawfurds of Dundonald - my name is Simon Tyas and Angela Mary Ashford was my maternal Grandmother. All the posts on the Crawfurd family have been very useful for me as I started to investigate my Grandmother's maternal line to the family tree.

I recently retired from the Royal Air Force, and in 2003 settled in - Dundonald, Ayrshire! I was shocked to find out that my 4th Great Grandfather was Moses Crawfurd who settled at Newfield in 1783.

I have said to Raymond that I will certainly go down to the Church Yard in Dundonald and take photographs of the Crawfurd gravestones that I find.

Reference my Great Aunt, Daisy Ashford, I have the davenport desk that she and my Grandmother wrote their children's stories - that includes, of course, the Young Visitors by Daisy - or to use her proper name Margaret Mary Julia.

If it assists I would be more than happy to grant access to my family tree to those of you involved in the above correspondence - just email me on rafman51ATmsn.com and I will action on receipt.

Simon Tyas

e-mail edited to (AT-@) to stop the spammers Russell

[Russell]

Hi Symon

and welcome to TalkingScot What a way to make your first post An entire family saga being researched before your very eyes.
Although not my family the way this thread has developed has been engrossing and has encapsulated the entire purpose of TalkingScot perfectly.

I wish you luck with your run down to Dundonald. My trips to the various Ayrshire cemeteries have not always been fruitful

Russell
PS I modified your e-mail address to prevent the spammers picking it up and bombarding you with unwanted rubbish.

[Peter Cowley]

Dear Simon

Greetings from Vancouver, Canada.

By my reckoning, we are fourth cousins as my 2nd great-grandfather was Robert (2) noted in these posts, son of Robert Crawfurd and Frances O'Brien. Robert (2) was brother of your 2nd great-grandmother Emma.

Pleasure to meet you cousin. I hope to visit the UK this year sometime and do the Crawfurd rounds so I would be delighted to stop by and say hello in Dundonald.

More later.

Cheers,

Peter

[rafman51]

Peter

You will of course be most welcome cousin! My email: rafman51ATmsn.com. Do you want access to my Ancestry family tree - if so email me and I will use your email to give you access.

My wife has cousins on her maternal side who emigrated to Victoria during the goldrush in the 1850s - so all round plenty of Australian connections!

warmest regards

Simon

Dear Simon

Greetings from Vancouver, Canada.

By my reckoning, we are fourth cousins as my 2nd great-grandfather was Robert (2) noted in these posts, son of Robert Crawfurd and Frances O'Brien. Robert (2) was brother of your 2nd great-grandmother Emma.

Pleasure to meet you cousin. I hope to visit the UK this year sometime and do the Crawfurd rounds so I would be delighted to stop by and say hello in Dundonald.

More later.

Cheers,

Peter

[rafman51]

I shall be going to the graveyard at Dundonald Church tomorrow (27th) morning - if I find any good infromation I shall post it on here, and forward any photos that may help anyone.