Liddells

robertferguson195 · Post by **robertferguson195** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:21 pm

Looking for info on the family of James Smith Liddell, born abt 1837 in Scotland...the family immigrated to North America, we believe into Canada and then the USA circa 1843. According to family history James' parents were James Liddell and Jessie Smith, in US census reports both born in Scotland as were their sons John and James, John being born abt 1843. James S. Liddell is one of my great great grandfathers. All we've been able to find on Scotlands People, ancestry.com etc. is a marriage record from 1833 Glasgow, Lanark between a James Liddell and a Janet Smith, no birth records for any children are to be found. We think the family may have been Catholic, would this be a problem in searching?

The only birth record of 1837 we have found for a James Liddell in 1837 was in Paisley but his parents were James Liddell and wife Marron.

Any info would be appreciated and as always would be happy to share info.

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:56 pm

Hi there

To answer one of your questions.....if they were non Church of Scotland ie...Catholic or Episcopalian or just plaini ol' dissenters then you won't find birth records through the online OPR at ScotlandsPeople website.

Now for my questions to you....have you looked for the parents on the 1841 Scottish census? Do you have any clue what occupation the father had? Are there any interesting middle names for the children or a naming pattern that might point clues to previous generations?

Best wishes
Jean

robertferguson195 · Post by **robertferguson195** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:42 pm

Hi,

Thanks for your response....the two Possibles we've found in Scotland one was a printer and one a railway plate layer, on the 1870 US Census this James is listed as a laborer...the only middle name we are aware of is for my GGgrandfather James his is Smith, which we are assuming is his Mom's family...but maybe not...of the children James is eldest, John came next so we are assuming his maternal grandfather was John Smith..not helping yet, the last child we know of was Peter, born in Canada can't at the moment tie this in...th TV Show "Without a Trace" comes to mind for these folks.

Thanks again

Rob F
Connecticut, USA

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:50 am

Hi again Robert

I stole a few moments from work this afternoon to try and find some possibles in the 1841 Scottish census....and then I tried to find what you described as your family in the US in 1870. Could you please confirm where they were in the US on that census? I didn't find him as a laborer is all.....but I may be tracking the wrong family

Have you tried to eliminate possibles in Scotland by tracing them all forward?....ie using the negative approach to problem solving by discarding hopefuls because you can prove they are not where you family was at a known future time. (not sure that just made sense

)

Best wishes
Jean

PS...Welcome to the forum...nice to see another New Englander join the crowd

!!!

robertferguson195 · Post by **robertferguson195** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:39 am

Hi Jean,

We have them on the 1870 US Census living in Hudson, NJ all except eldest son James, an occupation is not listed on the record we have, if I remember right son James was living in NYC with his wife's family, William and Eliza Chapman (originally from the Albany area).

I suspect part of what we are running into is spelling of the last name, I have done as you suggested with some of our prospects ie find them on the 1841 Scot census and then see if they are also on the 1851 census and so forth and this has eliminated a few.....will keep plugging away..........

Thanks for your welcome

rob f

claudette · Post by **claudette** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:53 am

Hi Rob

Looking on Ancestry I get the following:

1841 Census
Address: Arkleston Bleachfield
Civil Parish : Paisley Low
James Liddell aged 25 occupation Railway Plate Layer born Scotland
Marron Liddell aged born Scotland
James Liddell aged 4 born Renfrewshire
John Liddell aged 4 months born Renfrewshire

1880 US Census
Philadelphia
James S Liddell aged 43 occupation Case Maker born abt 1837 Scotland
married to Alida Liddell aged 37, born abt 1843 New York
Also living with
William H Chapman aged 65 Father-in-law occupation Baker, born abt 1815 New York, Father born England & Mother born New York
Eliza M Chapman aged 57 Mother-in-law occupation Keeps House, born abt 1823 New York, Father & Mother both born New York
James H Liddell aged 19
Jessie M Liddell aged 16
George W Liddell aged 12
Charles P Liddell aged 7

However, it says that the children's father James S. was born New York, which doesn't tie in with where their father says he was born !

I can't get onto the IGI at present as they are doing website maintenance.

I don't know if the above is just a repeat of what you already have and so adds nothing! But you hadn't mentioned anything about the 1880 Census so thought it was worth mentioning.

I haven't looked on Ancestry for any variations in spelling yet for 1841 Census. Could try that later.

Best wishes
Claudette

claudette · Post by **claudette** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:05 am

Hi again

What about the marriage and death certificates for James Smith Liddell? What info do they show about his parents?

Best wishes
Claudette

claudette · Post by **claudette** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:29 am

Hi

Have managed to get onto Familysearch.org now and James S. Liddell appears on there in the 1881 census as well living in his father-in-law William H Chapman's household in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

It says you can view the image for a fee at Ancestry.com. You mentioned searching Ancestry.com in your original posting, so if you're a member of that then you could have a look.

Don't know if this helps at all

k

Best wishes
Claudette

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:08 pm

Hi rob

Well thanks for confirming the NJ household!! I think things could be looking up

The all important occupation that you say is missing from your 1870 data.....is critical!! James is a 60 year old compositor and son John is a book binder.

I'd be running back to Scotland and studying the choices from the 1841 census that fit the printing occupations....and yes by all means use wildcards to consider alternate name spellings like LIDDAL or LIDEL or whatever!!

Best wishes
Jean

robertferguson195 · Post by **robertferguson195** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:04 pm

Thank you much Claudette and Jean, for your suggestions...I erred in saying James was a laborer, brain fade on my part I knew they were involved with bookbinding, printing etc.

We've been unable to find any death records on the original James and wife Jessie who came over from Scotland, they died between 1870 and 1880 in either Pennsylvania or NJ and in the time period they were married in Scotland circa 1830 - 1837 and the OPRs on marriage don't give much info, from about 1860 forward we have the family pretty well pegged in the US, even though their are some discrepancies in the various census reports, we've combined those, with the few old family letters that remain to tie down who was where and when. A cousin has recently disclosed she has some family history info in storage in Alaska and will be going up next spring to retrieve it (she lives in Texas now) so I'll have to be patient....hoping some day to find where they came from in Scotland, which may not happen as they may have immigrated to Canada in 1840 (missing the 1841 census) then to the US..time will tell I guess, fortunately we have had an easier time with our Ferguson/Glasgow ancestors.

Thanks for your help and suggestions

rob ferguson