How do i find my grans real father

m morgan · Post by **m morgan** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:40 pm

Hi

My Ggran Jean Moncur married James Hay 1861 in Anderstone Glasgow.Their daughter Jessie Hay born 1877 at 65 Elliot street Anderston was my Gran.I found my grans birth certificate and it says her Surname is Forbes, Moncur or Hay.It states that James Hay husband of Jean Moncur is not the father of this child and that he went to India 8 years before.Yet on my grans marriage and death certificate it has James Hay as her father.I then found my grans sister Thomasina Hay born 1879 birth certificate and it also says on this that james Hay was not her father and he went to India.I know they had three sons previous to this and James Hay was their father.Yet on the 1891 and 1901 cencus it says Jane is a Widow.Is there any way i could find out who her real father was.I know they were Salvation Army people.Also cant find anything on Thomasina after 1901 cencus think she emigrated.Anyone got any
suggestions.Marguerite

Post by **Ina** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:05 pm

m morgan wrote:Hi

My Ggran Jean Moncur married James Hay 1861 in Anderstone Glasgow.Their daughter Jessie Hay born 1877 at 65 Elliot street Anderston was my Gran.I found my grans birth certificate and it says her Surname is Forbes, Moncur or Hay.It states that James Hay husband of Jean Moncur is not the father of this child and that he went to India 8 years before.Yet on my grans marriage and death certificate it has James Hay as her father.I then found my grans sister Thomasina Hay born 1879 birth certificate and it also says on this that james Hay was not her father and he went to India.I know they had three sons previous to this and James Hay was their father.Yet on the 1891 and 1901 cencus it says Jane is a Widow.Is there any way i could find out who her real father was.I know they were Salvation Army people.Also cant find anything on Thomasina after 1901 cencus think she emigrated.Anyone got any suggestions.Marguerite

Hi Marguarite,

That information may have been taken to the grave by your great grandmother. I have the same problem with my great grandfather's sister Mary Larkin. Birth record states her name is Larkin or Bonnar, that Hugh Larkin (the husband) is not the father as he and the wife had separated four years earlier. All of her life Mary used the name Larkin. Both her marriage and death records show her as Mary Larkin. My guess is that my great great grandmother never revealed who the real father was.

Regards,

Ina

m morgan · Post by **m morgan** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:37 pm

Hi Ina

As you say i dont think there is much chance of me finding her real father.I like to think that my gran and her sister had the same father although i will never know.Thanks Marguerite

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:50 pm

Hello Marguerite,

Is this the family in 1881?

Dwelling: 98 Mathieson Rd
Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203664 GRO Ref Volume 644-9 EnumDist 91 Page 12
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Jane HAY W 37 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
James HAY U 18 M England
Rel: Son
Occ: Labourer
Harvey HAY 14 M Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Labourer
Jessie HAY 4 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Tomisina HAY 2 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur

If so it would be definitely worth checking the poorhouse applications at The Mitchell Library.

If you can't make it I will look next time I'm there.

Regards,
Annette M

m morgan · Post by **m morgan** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:56 pm

Hi Annette

Yes this is my Gran and her family though Harry was actualy Henry.My mum also had a brother Henry.It would be great if you could look up the poor records for me next time your there.Thanks a million Marguerite

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:49 pm

m morgan wrote:Hi Annette

Yes this is my Gran and her family though Harry was actualy Henry.My mum also had a brother Henry.It would be great if you could look up the poor records for me next time your there.Thanks a million Marguerite

Hello Marguerite,

Sorry the only applications I could find were made by your gran's mother before you gran was born.

One made in 1867 was pretty hard to read due to water damage

It mentioned children James age 5 in August, born Newcastle and John age 2 in May, born Cranston Street.

A summary of the other one read -

James Hay's wife applied 1863 as she was deserted by her husband.
She was born at Sugar House Lane Greenock, daughter of Thomas Moncur and Janet Morrison both deceased.
Husband's parents James Hay and Margaret Hutcheson who lived at Catherine Street.
Her mother in law wanted to take charge of the child till the father returned. It was the 3rd time he had deserted her through the influence of the mother who was decidedly against the marriage from the first because the applicant was an orphan and had nothing.(seems like a nice lady

) She had informed on his brother who was a deserter.

I will keep the names in my wee book and look again when I'm next there.

Regards,
Annette M

m morgan · Post by **m morgan** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:37 pm

Hi Annette.

I cant thank you enough for finding this info for me.Im actually glad James Hay wasnt my grans father.What a horrible woman here mother in law was.I never knew the surname of her mother in law Margaret as it wasnt clear on my great grans marriage certificate.I knew their first son James was born in England but she must have went back with James Hay several times because they had John and Henry born 1865 and 1867.John died when he was 10.I found out that my mums eldest sister was actually born in the same house as Jean Moncur died in 1902.My mums sister was born 1899.Thank godness she never gave her children away .They would have probably turned out like their father James Hay.

Thank you .

Marguerite

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:05 am

Hi Margeurite,

Bear in mind that the poorhouse records only state what was told to them by the applicant. Now I am not saying that your g-granny lied, but I do know that one of my relatives DID. It was a laugh actually, my ggg grandfather had accused his wife of being a terrible liar and a drunk, and yet on questioning her neighbours it was found that none had ever seen her 'the worse for drink'. And later I found out that ggg grandfather had been in jail three times for theft, so it was his own character was questionable to say the least! (Nelmit found that gem for me, thanks again Nelmit

).

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that your g-granny may have been so distressed at being abandoned that she told them about her mother in law as she perceived it, but it may not have actually been as bad as she thought....just saying.....hope this doesn't upset you!

Nina

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:23 am

In this case I got the impression the mother in law was interviewed too.

Actually I think I will look at it again when I have more time as I think I have got something wrong re place of birth. On census records Jane is listed as being born in Glasgow not Greenock.

Regards,
Annette M

m morgan · Post by **m morgan** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:01 pm

Thanks everyone

I kind of thought why would my grear gran report her brother in law for being a desertar .Maybe she had a fall out with the family.Sounds like a lot of today families .I will be pleased at what if any info anyone can find on my great gran and her family.Thanks everyone. Marguerite.

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How do i find my grans real father

How do i find my grans real father

Re: How do i find my grans real father

Jane Moncur