Where do they fit?

[heymarky]

In the 1841 census I have found a 'Mrs. Dyer' aged 60 who I suspect is Marion (nee Logan) Dyer, an ancestor of mine. (644/01 195/01 011)

I suspect this because she is living in College Parish at 76 Havannah Street with 3 year old John Dyer.

My ggg-grandfather, Robert (Marion Logan's son) is living with his family at 100 Havannah St. in College Parish (644/01 194/01 017). Robert's brother John is also in College Parish (644/01 198/01 019) and his children are all there with the exception of three-year-old John Jr.

Also living with 'Mrs. Dyer' and John is a Margaret Weir (age 60) and James Kirkwood (age 1). Looks like another granny / grandson.

I have always wondered how they came to be living together and whether or not Mrs. Weir was also family.

The other day I was reviewing previous searches on SP. I noticed an SRI Death for a Margaret Dyer, other surnames: Weir, born about 1794. "Ah ha!", says I and quickly had a peek:

Margaret Weir, widow of Thomas Weir, lead miner, died 3 Feb 1867 at 73 years. Parents: Alexander Dyer, lead miner (deceased), Margaret Dyer M. S. Laidlay (deceased), Informant John Dyer, Nephew.

John is promising, but Alexander and Margaret are new names for me. At first I thought the informant must be the John living with Mrs. Dyer in 1841, which is exciting because I don't know the names of Marion Logan's husband, James Dyer... but Alexander just doesn't seem to fit.

I looked for birth records for Margaret Dyer without luck. Could swear I found probably siblings last night on IGI, but they're nowhere to be found now.

So I start thinking, Margaret was alive in 1861... I wonder who she was living with? Back to SP. There is a Margaret Weir AND a Margaret Dyer exactly the right age... but Margaret Dyer lives in Glasgow so I go with her and luckily, she is the right one! She is the first line on the page and relation to head of family is Sister , living with John L Dyer (age 19, son - there's the nephew) and William A (age 18, son) The 'sons' are both born in Edinburgh. Quickly I pay for the previous page to find out who's sister she is... who is the father of John and William ????

Wait a minute, there are no Dyer's here... Head of the household is John Orr, wife Mary Orr, three sons, James, John and Illegible and a Catherine Young, "Wife's sister". The address on this page is 105 N Montrose, same as the Dyers on the next page....

This is getting too long and I haven't even started on James Kirkwood from the 1841 census. (There is a Mary Kirkwood living next to John Dyer Sr. family, IGI has a James Kirkwood the right age with parents Alexander Kirkwood and Marion Beltram Logan....)

My head is spinning. So many almost connections.

Can anyone help me sort it out?

[nelmit]

Sorry can't help with the census page but this looks like the parents of John .

Results for: Father: John Dyer, Mother: Euphemia Mcewan

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 2
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. JOHN LAIDLAW DYER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 26 JAN 1840 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

2. MARGARET LAIDLEY DYER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 15 JUL 1838 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland


Here they are in 1841 - from FREECEN -

Piece: SCT1841/685 Place: St Cuthbert's -Midlothian Enumeration District: 26
Civil Parish: St Cuthberts Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 26 Page: 8
Address: 26 West Richmond Street

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
DYER John M 40 Tea Dealer Outside Census County (1841)
DYER Euphemia F 35 Outside Census County (1841)
DYER Alexander M 15 Midlothian
Page: 26/9 DYER John M 7w Midlothian

This looks like Margaret and Thomas in 1841.

Piece: SCT1841/635 Place: Crawford -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 8
Civil Parish: Crawford Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Crawford
Folio: 8 Page: 5
Address: Miners Row East

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
WEIR Thomas M 50 Lead Miner Overseer Lanarkshire
WEIR Margret F 40 Outside Census County (1841)
MUIR Martha F 15 Outside Census County (1841)


Regards,
Annette M

[heymarky]

Thanks Annette! I appreciate the help!

So it looks like Margaret is the sister of John. That means that they are both children of Alexander Dyer / Margaret Laidlay (Laidley, Laidlaw)

I'm wondering if Alexander was a brother to my ancestor, James but I am not having much luck going back on either one of those lines.

Also, James (husband of Marion Logan, AKA Mrs. Dyer in 1841) gets married and settles down in Kilwinning, Ayrshire. Census records show Margaret Weir/Dyer and her brother John's birthplace as Sanquhar, Dumfries and Scotland's People shows another child, Alexander, born in Sanquhar to Alexander Dyer / Margaret Laidlay, 27 Dec 1789.

I also wonder how extended extended families were back in the early 1800s. I assume that Margaret Weir/Dyer was living with Mrs (Marion Logan) Dyer because they were family. Is it possible that they knew they were family, but didn't really know exactly how?

This one is turning into a question factory....

[Naomi]

Since this post was from 2007 i doubt that you are actively checking it, but maybe someone else could comment.

"This is getting too long and I haven't even started on James Kirkwood from the 1841 census. (There is a Mary Kirkwood living next to John Dyer Sr. family, IGI has a James Kirkwood the right age with parents Alexander Kirkwood and Marion Beltram Logan....)"

I believe the James Kirkwood born in 1840 to Alexander and Marion Beltram Kirkwood may have been my Grgrfather who came to South Carolina in the 1860s to work as a lithographer and married Jane Elizabeth Thomson, moving to New York City.

Brother John born a couple of years later to the same family, from christening records.

Can you fill me in on Mary Kirkwood connection, Dyers, etc. I believe I had a different address fromSP a few years ago.

thank you!

[StewL]

Hello Naomi

Although this thread is a bit old, if the members who posted still have the same email address they will be notified of the new post.
Also, on TS we don't like to think any post is old, just having a wee rest

[Naomi]

thank you!