John Cairns and Mary Thomson mystery

[DavidMK]

JOHN CAIRNS and MARY THOMSON

I have been trying to get info on my ggparents. John Cairns and Mary Thomson and have much conflicting data which takes me around in circles. Perhaps some clear thinking sleuth out there can bring a different perspective to the problem.

I am pretty certain that the following 61 census entry for Cambusnethan (Wishaw) is my ancestors.

John Cairns age 28 b Ayrshire, Mauchline
Mary do wife 25 do do
James do son 4 do Kilwinning
Hugh do son 2 Lanarkshire, Wishaw
Agnes do dtr 6 wks do do

Mary’s ms was Thomson and other children were William Thomson Cairns b Mochrum, Wigtownshire 1853 d Ayr 1855, and Elizabeth Thomson Cairns b Ayr 1855 d Ayr 1855

John and Mary were married in Mochrum, Wigtownshire in 1853.

This is where the fun starts.

My cousin believes that John is son of Alexander and Elizabeth Cairns, of Catrine Ayrshire, and there is an entry in the IGI for a John born in Mauchline to these parents ( although submitted by an LDS member and therefore not necessarily reliable).The 61 census shows this John at home in Catrine with his parents, which conflicts with my John Cairns in the Wishaw census.( unless somebody made a wrong statement to the census taker. Anybody come across this before?)

I always wondered why they got married in Mochrum if they were both from Ayrshire, and it has recently dawned on me that Mochrum sounds very like Mauchline , and that perhaps the census taker in Lanarkshire got it wrong. Mauchline would be familiar to someone from Lanarkshire whereas Mochrum would not (as it was not to me)

The saga continues, so go get a cup of coffee.

We are pretty sure the Cairns family moved to Hamilton and cousins still live in that area to this day. The only death cert for John Cairns that fits was in 1879.The informant was his son James.He gave John’s age as 50, wife as Mary Thomson and his parents as Michael Cairns and Mary McMillan (both deceased). Address at death was 7 Leechlee Street, Hamilton.

The 81 census gives a Marion Cairns with several children living at 7 Leechlee St. The children were John 14, Jane 17, Mary 12, Margaret 9. I found the 3 youngest in the IGI with parents John Cairns and Marion Burns.I can find nothing on the birth, marriage or death of Marion Burns.It may be pure coincidences that Marions husband was John and that the family was living at the same address where my John died, or perhaps Mary Thomson died in the early 1860s and John remarried Marion.

Following up on the death notice, I found the only Cairns living in Mochrum in 51 were a Michael, age 50 and John age 24. John was living with his aunt Grace McMillan. This seems to tie in with the info on the death notice although age a few years out. I also found John living with Mary McMillan age 62, among others) in Mochrum in the 41 census. Johns age given as 15, is the age difference too much for Mary to be his mother?

With respect to Mary Thomson, that name can be found everywhere, even in Mochrum. The lack of a death notice makes it impossible to determine her origins.

There’s lots to speculate about here, and I would appreciate any and all comments, from anyone who has had the patience to stick with me.

David

[SarahND]

Hi David,
Lovely little problem you have here
1) Is the John in Catrine in 1861 listed as married?
2) Which child are we sure about, i.e. which is your ancestor? At least that will give us a name that has to be there...
3) Did you get the names John Cairns and Mary Thomson from the marriage or death certificate of that child, or from somewhere else?
4) Have you found them in 1871?

It's late here now, but maybe someone on another continent will take it from here while I sleep

All the best,
Sarah

[Jack]

Hi David and Sarah,
This looks like the family in 1871.
1861 & 1881 added to compare.
In 1871 Ancestry has LAVINS, and SP has CARINS.
It would appear that John CAIRNS met up with Marion BURNS by 1865.
--
1861 cens 628 Ed 3 p 19 (Cambusnethan)
Stewarton St, Wishaw.
John CAIRNS, head, 28, Coalminer, b Mauchline, AYR
Mary J CAIRNS, wife, 25, --------------b Mauchline, AYR
James CAIRNS, son, 4, ----------------b Kilwinning, AYR
Hugh CAIRNS, son, 2, -----------------b Wishaw, LKS
Agnes CAIRNS, daur, 6 wks, ------b Wishaw, LKS
--
1871 cens 647 Ed 10 p 19 (Hamilton)
2 Low Patrick St.
John CARINS, head, 43, Coal miner, b Morteron?, WIG
Marion CARINS, wife, 43, ------------b Hamilton, LKS
James CARINS, son, 15, Coal miner, b KIlwinning, AYR
Marion CARINS, daur, 14, Mill worker, b East Kilbride, LKS
Hugh CARINS, son, 13, Coal miner, b Wishaw, LKS
Jane CARINS, daur, 8, Scholar, b Hamilton, LKS
John CARINS, son, 5, ----------b Hamilton, LKS
Mary CARINS, daur, 2, --------b Hamilton, LKS
-
1881 cens 647 Ed 10 p 6 (Hamilton)
7 Leechlee St.
Marion CAIRNS, head, 54, Washer woman, b Hamilton
John CAIRNS, son, 14, Coal miner, b Hamilton
Jane CAIRNS, daur, 17, Factory worker, b Hamilton
Mary CAIRNS, daur, 12, Scholar, b Hamilton
Margaret CAIRNS, daur, 9, Scholar, b Hamilton
--
Jack

[SarahND]

=D> =D> Jack
No wonder I couldn't find them-- Lavins indeed!
Now I can sleep
Sarah

[Jack]

Hi Sarah,
Ancestry is, as you know, mostly a real pain to search; their transcriptions are atroshus...
They are useful, but expensive; and sorry to say i couldn't recommend them...
Sleep well.....zzz
Jack

[DavidMK]

Hi sarah, thanks for your questions. Answers are

1 I got Catrine 61 census from ancestry and printed it. No mention of marital status. But no wife present, nor on 71 census where John was in a poorhouse.

2&3 My grandfather was Hugh, and I got his parents names from both of his Marriage and Death certificates.Note Thomson runs as a middle name in our family including my mother, Agnes Hannah Thomson Cairns. She likely got the Agnes from Hugh's sister but I dont know where the Hannah came from.

4 I tried in vain, but thanks to Jack I now have them in 71

Thanks also to Jack, you are a genius, given the weird spellings.The important thing on the 71 census is it confirms that john was born in Wigton, likely Mochrum.I was aware of the Low Patrick address from James poor relief application when he was ill.The younger Marion was not likely John's dtr unless her age is wrong.At least I have found no record of John and Mary having a dtr Marion.

PS how are things in Paisley. I took Civil Engineering at the Tech. graduating 50 years ago.It seems like only yesterday.

Thanks again to you both .

David

[SarahND]

Hi David,
It certainly seems that you have found the right family, then. Now you need to find Mary's death... Nothing obvious, as I'm sure you've noticed. There are 7 Mary Cairns, born 1836 +/-3 who died between 1861 and 1871 on SP, but none have an "other surname" of t*m*s*n. Two are in Lanark, but neither in Cambusnethan nor Hamilton One in High Church, the other in Tradeston. There is one in Ayr, but neither Mauchline nor Kilwinning. And none in Wigtown at all Just trying all the places...
There are two John Cairns marrying Mar* in Hamilton between 1861 and 1871, but both are Margaret
Sorry, not much help here!
Regards,
Sarah

[SarahND]

The younger Marion was not likely John's dtr unless her age is wrong.At least I have found no record of John and Mary having a dtr Marion.

I'm sure you have Hugh in 1881. It looks like the Marion who was 14 on the 1871 census has married George Lindsay. If you're curious enough, you could look up the marriage and see who her parents were

1881
Ferniegair, Hamilton, Lanarkshire
George Lindsay, 26, Head, born Cam'Nethan, Lanarkshire, Coalminer
Marion Lindsay, 23, Wife, born E Kilbride, Lanarkshire
Hugh Cairns, 22, Boarder, born Cam'Nethan, Lanarkshire, Coalminer

All the best,
Sarah

[Jack]

Hi David,
I should've mentioned that 14yr old Marion in 1871 is possibly...
--
MARION KELLY - Birth: 22 AUG 1857 East Kilbride, Lanark
Parents: THOMAS KELLY & MARION BURNS
--
I mind the old Tech. on George St. well - my dad (Textile Chemist) studied there.
As for myself - i didn't have the brains to follow his footsteps.
I just scraped into Camphill...
Jack

[SarahND]

Hi again,
Here is young Marion in 1861 and it is clear she is the daughter of Marion Burns. She had a son Marion too! And look at the street name.

1861
25 Leechlee St, Hamilton, Lanarkshire
James Burns, 58, Head, born Hamilton, Lanark, Cotton Weaver
Mary Burns, 60, Wife, born Lesmahagow, Lanark
James Burns, 20, Son, born Hamilton, Lanark
Margt Burns, 16, Daughter, born Hamilton, Lanark, Tambourer
Marion Kelly, 34, Daughter, born Hamilton, Lanark, Cotton Weaver
Marion Kelly, 3, Grandaughter, born E Kilbride, Lanark
Marion Kelly, 12, Grandson, born Hamilton, Lanark, Cotton Weaver

I see Jack has put up the birth
Regards,
Sarah