Agnes McGoff 1855-1921 Disappears from family in between?..

[winslowsmom]

I hope this doesn’t seem too rambling. My mother’s granny was supposedly raised by her stepmother, so I looked for the death of Agnes McGoff, but couldn’t find one during what would have been granny’s childhood. Below is what I did find.
Is there a way to search for a possible divorce? Do you think she just up and left or went crazy, or he was mean? Why would she leave 2 daughters? What else could I look for that could shed some light?

Agnes McGoff

I have the certificates for these events:

Born June 1855 in Girvan, Ayr
(Parents John McGoff and Jane Currie, nine brothers, I have
birth and marriage info on many of them)

Married John McDonald 3 Sept 1875 in Glasgow (I have an extract from GROS, and no divorce cited on it)

Daughters Jane and Janet (Jessie, my mother’s granny)born at 464 Duke Street, Glasgow in 1877 and 1879.

1881 Census, at 464 Duke Street, Glasgow are:

John McDonald 27, gen labor
Eliza wife, 24, born Girvan
Jeannie daughter 3
Jessie daughter 1

John McDonald’s parents also at this address, different household.

Who is Eliza? Is this a different name for Agnes McGoff, or a different wife for John McDonald?

Agnes McDonald is present and signs the death cert for her mother in 1884 in Calton, Glasgow.

Jane (Jeannie) McDonald, aged 9 dies in 1886, and the cert says Agnes McGoff, her mother, is deceased. Stepmother M. McDonald signs the cert.

4 June 1898 Agnes McGoff , (Parents John McGoff and Jane Currie), widow of John McDonald (blacksmith), marries a shopkeeper James Norris.

1 July 1922 Agness McGoff dies in at the district asylum, Haddington, East Lothian.

[Andy]

Hi there,

This may be just a coincidence but Agnes mother was Jane Currie. In the 1881 census there is this:

Dwelling: Wyllies Building Rigg Street
Census Place: Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203609 GRO Ref Volume 616 EnumDist 12 Page 2
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Robert CURRIE M 54 M Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Shoemaker
Rosanna CURRIE M 64 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
Rosanna SCOTT 13 F Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Bonnet Crotcheter
Agnes MC DONALD U 26 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Bonnet Knitter
Charles Mc Donald THOMSON 1 M Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Maggie CALDERWOOD 1 F Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Agnes HAY U 50 F Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Dressmaker


Here's the mother, brothers and mother's second husband to be:

Dwelling: 21 Sydney St Or Eastwood Court
Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203637 GRO Ref Volume 644-3
EnumDist 2 Page 10

Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Jeanie MC GOFF W 44 F Girvan, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
David MC GOFF U 21 M Alexandria, Dunbarton, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: General Laborer
Hugh MC GOFF U 19 M Alexandria, Dunbarton, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Cloth Lapper
William MC GOFF U 17 M Alexandria, Dunbarton, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Cloth Lapper
James MC GOFF U 15 M Renton, Dunbarton, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Boy Draymans Cart
Mathew MC GOFF 12 M Renton, Dunbarton, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Charles MC GOFF U 10 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Walter MC GOFF U 7 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Henry HALL U 33 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Warehouse Porter

However, I had a quick look at the marriage cert to James Norris and her name was Agnes Goff or Muir, widow. James was a Steel Worker not a Shopkeeper.

In 1885 a "Spinster" Agnes McGoff marries Robert Muir in Shettleston. Her parents, John McGoff (a gasworks manager dec [same as on cert to James Norris]) and Jane Currie (dec)

Here's Robert in 1881:


Census Place: Shettleston, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203614 GRO Ref Volume 622-2 EnumDist 15 Page 21
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Isaac MUIR M 63 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Dyer
Letitia MUIR M 64 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
Robert MUIR U 27 M
Rel: Son

Her address on this marriage cert was 13 Calton Street, Shettleston.

This will be workoutable but because common names like McDonald and Muir are involved it's going to take a bit of time.

First try to find daughter Jessie in 1891 to see who was with John. Eliza in 1881 M. McDonald in 1886 seems like a very open marriage.

Next try to establish whether Robert Muir had died before 1898 (when Agnes marries for a third time).

Agnes certainly wasn't dead as reported on Janes death cert and if M. McDonald had married John this, along with Agnes marriage to Robert Muir were both bigamous.

Best of luck .... you'll need it!

[Alcluith]

Hi

Have you looked for a marriage cert of John McDonald and M.McDonald which you would assume between 1884 & 1886?

Maybe they never married but she just took John's surname and on Jane's death cert stated Agnes was dead to legitimise her status as stepmum.

Do you have the death certificate of John McDonald, who we assume died before 1898 and possible after 1886?

What about death cert of Stepmum this would give her own name and that of parents?

[winslowsmom]

Hello,
Thank you Andy and Drew for your replies.

I do believe that that is my Agnes McDonald residing in Stewarton, Ayr
with the family of Robert Currie. I will try to find the death and/or marriage certs for Robert Currie to see if indeed his parents match those of Jane Currie. Jane Currie did name her first son Robert, and this Robert is 10 years older than Jane.

I had seen the census of the McGoff family, and indeed it was a later marriage cert of Walter McGoff that tipped me off that Jeannie had married Henry Hall.

The marriage cert of Agnes McGoff and James Norris did indeed say he was a forge worker, and this is more reliable I would think than Agnes'
death cert, reported by a Superintendant. It also said that John McDonald was a blacksmith, which is the only place I have seen this so far.

I was excited to see the marriage to Robert Muir in 1885 - it was all new to me! I will investigate that further.

I will continue to look for Jessie McDonald on the 1891 census. I suspect that she might be with step mother M McDonald who signed her sister's death cert. Jessie married William Christie in 1899 and named her first daughter Margaret McDonald Smith Christie. There must be a hint there - perhaps Margaret McDonald married a Mr Smith after John McDonald died.

I am curious about John McDonald's death - I haven't found it yet, but will continue to chip away. His parents were William McDonald and Janet Jeffrey, according to his marriage cert to Agnes, and I am confident of it because they named my mom's granny Janet Jeffrey McDonald. I saw one death cert that was a likely age and neighborhood of a John McDonald who cracked his head on a curb, but no parents were listed, there was an RCE that I hadn't looked up yet, and I can't find it again on my viewed images, but I have too many pages yet to check again to say its not really there. Any way, if anyone else is looking for John McDonalds and finds one with Wm McD and Janet Jeffrey for parents, I would love to see it. Otherwise, I will keep you posted if I find him.

Thanks again for your assistance, I am kind of having fun with this puzzle.

[nelmit]

Hello,
Thank you Andy and Drew for your replies.

I do believe that that is my Agnes McDonald residing in Stewarton, Ayr
with the family of Robert Currie. I will try to find the death and/or marriage certs for Robert Currie to see if indeed his parents match those of Jane Currie. Jane Currie did name her first son Robert, and this Robert is 10 years older than Jane.
I had seen the census of the McGoff family, and indeed it was a later marriage cert of Walter McGoff that tipped me off that Jeannie had married Henry Hall.

The marriage cert of Agnes McGoff and James Norris did indeed say he was a forge worker, and this is more reliable I would think than Agnes'
death cert, reported by a Superintendant. It also said that John McDonald was a blacksmith, which is the only place I have seen this so far.

I was excited to see the marriage to Robert Muir in 1885 - it was all new to me! I will investigate that further.

I will continue to look for Jessie McDonald on the 1891 census. I suspect that she might be with step mother M McDonald who signed her sister's death cert. Jessie married William Christie in 1899 and named her first daughter Margaret McDonald Smith Christie. There must be a hint there - perhaps Margaret McDonald married a Mr Smith after John McDonald died.

I am curious about John McDonald's death - I haven't found it yet, but will continue to chip away. His parents were William McDonald and Janet Jeffrey, according to his marriage cert to Agnes, and I am confident of it because they named my mom's granny Janet Jeffrey McDonald. I saw one death cert that was a likely age and neighborhood of a John McDonald who cracked his head on a curb, but no parents were listed, there was an RCE that I hadn't looked up yet, and I can't find it again on my viewed images, but I have too many pages yet to check again to say its not really there. Any way, if anyone else is looking for John McDonalds and finds one with Wm McD and Janet Jeffrey for parents, I would love to see it. Otherwise, I will keep you posted if I find him.

Thanks again for your assistance, I am kind of having fun with this puzzle.

Hi all,

I too saw that Agnes Mcdonald but discounted her because she states she is unmarried and the child Charles appears to be hers (Isuppose that can be checked). He is the same age as Jessie.
There is an Agnes McDonald born in 1855 in Ayr, Ayr on the IGI.

Regards,
Annette M

[nelmit]

I was at the Mitchell Library today and found Poor House applications for both Agnes McGoff Norris and Jane Currie McGoff.

I could see these have been viewed before so perhaps you have them.

Let me know and if you don't I'll post the information.

Regards,

Annette M

[winslowsmom]

Hello Annette
No, I haven't seen those poor relief applications - I must have an unknown relative poking around too!
It will be great to have you post them - I would love read them.
Thank you so much Annete.

Cathy

[nelmit]

Hello Annette
No, I haven't seen those poor relief applications - I must have an unknown relative poking around too!
It will be great to have you post them - I would love read them.
Thank you so much Annete.

Cathy

Ok Cathy, get the kettle on it's going to take me a while to type it up(I'm pretty slow).

It will all take a little bit of working out but I am positive it's your people.

Be back soon.

Annette M

[nelmit]

Let’s start with Jane who applied for assistance on 18th January 1879.

Jane Currie McGoff, 21 Sydney Street
Place of birth – The Shalloch?, Girvan, May ‘36
Widow age 42 h/wife Protestant.

Dependants: Matthew 10 ½ b. Renton
Charles 6 ¾ b. Duke Street
Walter 5 b. Duke Street

Husband – John McGoff b. Grainstone?, a mile from Girvan
occ. Engine Keeper and Gasman, died 10th June ’77 at Bell Street was ill for 3 ½ years.
Parents – David Currie, farmer and Agnes Watson both dead.

Children (non dependant)
Robert 1.5.54
Agnes 9.6.56 Brackenridge Road, Girvan m. J McDond & 2 (Children
John 5.12.58
David 4.12.60
Hugh 8.2.63
William 26.3.65
James 28.2.66

It also lists the children’s jobs and where they were born, I’ve only shown Agnes as it gives details of the boys later. The writing is very small so I think that is roughly what it said.

23.4.79
Jane Currie McGoff applies from 2 Sydney St. for the education of the 3 youngest boys, Matthew, Charles and Walter. Her sons Robert, David and William are employed with McHutchie?? & Lawrie Grocers, High Street. Says she does not know the wages of the first two but they give her 8 – 10/- each a week. John is about Haddington and Hugh and Jas. are idle since the New Year. She is delicate and was lately in the infirmary.

She was refused assistance because of wages of Robert, David and William were 23/- 14/- and 8/-.

27.5.1880
Jane Currie McGoff Reapplies from 21 Sydney St. She is a widow aged 43 years. It talks about the boys again and then Agnes 25 years married & 2 children to John McDonald a collier who works in Rankine Pit, Carntyne, earnings small, resides in Carntyne.
Her brother David married & 4 of a family, retired from business in Greenside, Girvan. John married & 1 daughter and Robert married & 0 both farmers in Toronto, America. (don’t shoot the messenger that is what it said!!). Sister Catherine married & 5children to John Downie resides in Ritchies Lane. Sister Agnes, married and 1 to a farm servant in Edinburgh.
She denied having any lodgers but then admitted to having 1 who pays 2/6 per week.

Rent, 16/- per week, 3 apartment clean.

30.9.81
Residing 106 Claythorn Street.

Right I'm away to type up Agnes's story although I must say it is not nearly as comprehensive as Jane's and it may give you more questions than answers. If Andrew's discovery of a marriage to a Mr. Muir is correct then this lady fails to mention it!!

[nelmit]

Here is Agnes's story but you must bear in mind that although statements were verified ( it amazes me what lengths the authorities went to to find the right parish to give financial aid when required) they could only check on what Agnes told them.
14th March 1906

Widow James Norris Agnes McGoff.
Born Girvan
Age 51 Widow Occ. Domestic Rel. Protestant

If married when where and by whom: 8 years ago in Camlachie English Church
(this was verified by overwriting in red 4/6/1898 by Rev. J ….? Marriage lines seen 168/98 Camlachie.

Reason for application – Sore foot

Parents John McGoff a labourer dead and Jane Currie dead.
Her father died 22 years ago in Bell Street.
Her mother died 20 years ago in Tureen Street.

James Norris died 21.9.01 at 148 West Muir Street 4 years ago last September age 58, an iron worker born Wales, England. (That is what was written – so don’t shout at me!!) Son of James Norris an iron worker dec.and …………………

Application made for admission suffering from an ulcerated leg. She maintains herself by farm service. Her husband was a widower when she married him but cannot tell the first wife’s name.

Name, age and birthplace of children : Jessie 23 illegitimate, putative father – John McDonald. He died some years ago. She is married and has 3 of a family to a William Christie a pottery worker, resides about Ayr.

She left 148 West Muir Street Parkhead two years last August. She was there for 4 years. Since then 41 Charlotte Street c/o Cruikshanks.

27.4.06 – Poorhouse

25.7.11
After leaving Barnhill she went to stay with her brother William 16 Back Causeway West Muir where she remained till last December.

She applied again in 9th August 1912 and left 3rd September 1912.

I forgot to add that I had a look at the 1881 census film and it definitely says Eliza.

Regards,
Annette M