Helen Cheyne born Kintore 1886 ** birthday bumped post **

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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Susan
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:03 am
Location: Montrose, Scotland

Post by Susan » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:13 pm

Hi Ian

Been watching your thread on Rootschat this last week re Margaret Kennedy.

Well today someone posted that although they had not yet been able to find out Margaret's maiden name they had found out that her middle name was Shand !!!

Well that made me think she could be the daughter of Alexander Simpson born April 1875 in Aberdeen. He was "Aunt Maggie's" brother, the first of William Simpson's 3 children to his second wife Eliza Shand, and Christina's half-brother. I had already traced him in 1881 (Kintore), 1891 (Banffshire) and 1901 Maryhill, Lanarkshire, but had not come across any likely marriages or deaths for him.

So I looked on the Canadian census of 1911 and there he is at 317 St Johns, Winnipeg City, Manitoba, with a wife Jeannie, born Scotland April 1881 and a daughter Margaret born May 1906 Manitoba and a son James born Aug 1908 Manitoba, along with a sister-in-law Beatrice Thomson, born Scotland June 1892.

So looks like we've maybe found Margaret Kennedy, and a brother James fits in with the reference to "Jimmy" in the letter to your mum. Might be worth trying to find out if Alexander & Jeannie were still around to have gone on the Alaskan cruise.

Susan.

imlincs
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:42 pm

Post by imlincs » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:43 pm

Hello Susan

You've both beaten me to it and got further than I have.

I was just about to post Rootchat's Lynwen's discovery about the middle name Shand together with the suggestion that MK must be the daughter of Alexander or Hellen Simpson.

However you've done it all for me (again!).

This is clearly conclusive proof of my grandmother's family link with Margaret Kennedy.

And no Anne, I don't feel as though I've been mugged. I'm simply amazed at, and very grateful for, all the help you've given me.

I'm coming back shortly with one or two musings about the family photo but this seems to complete my original query about Christina Simpson's family, at least until I start to go back a couple more generations.

What an astonishingly resourceful (and time generous) group of people you are.

Thank you.

Ian
+++

nelmit
Posts: 3956
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:57 pm

Excellent!!!!!

Anne I envy your walking trips - there is nothing quite like an autumn country walk in Scotland.

Regards,
Annette

Susan
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:03 am
Location: Montrose, Scotland

Post by Susan » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:23 pm

Hi Ian

I had checked and found that Hellen Simpson died in Kintore in 1882 aged 3, followed soon after by her mother Eliza Shand. (There are only 3 other deaths registered bewteen both of them on the Kintore register.)

So this helped narrow it down to Alexander being the most likely candidate.

Susan.

imlincs
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:42 pm

Post by imlincs » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:45 pm

Hello Anne

Yes I’m in England – have lived in Lincolnshire for the last 30 years. I’m pleased to have a grandson after 3 granddaughters – if this one had been a girl then maybe I might have felt that I’d been mugged by a group of women! I certainly hope to visit sometime in the spring to go over all this ground and maybe tie up loose ends (for example checking Kintore school records).

A couple of musings about Aberdeen.

AnneM wrote
William Simpson died on 7th September 1913 at 8 Summer Street, Woodside, Aberdeen. ......
The informant is his son Robert Simpson. 34 Summerfield Terrace, Aberdeen.
Both those streets are still there.

Susan wrote
There were/still are some houses of that style along King Street, Pittodrie, Sunnybank, Causewayend, Kittybrewster, Woodside ….
Woodside is the birthplace of the 3 Simpson/Shand children in the 1870s as well as where William ends his life. I wonder what the connection was, since in between he lived in Cottown, Kintore and Littlemill, Auchterless.

Summerfield Street is off King Street. Perhaps the photograph was taken outside 34 Summerfield Street and the man is my grandmother's uncle, Robert Simpson, who would by then have been about 60, with his wife Susan Gatt (about 55), Aunt Maggie (mid 40s) and daughter Margaret Jane or Susan Gatt (just before or after becoming Mrs Hossack in 1924)? Young ladies looked older in those days didn't they? The seated lady is a puzzle - she could be Robert's stepmother and Aunt Maggie's mother Eliza Shand/Simpson who would have been in her mid seventies, except that Eliza didn't appear to be living with William in 1891 or 1901. Perhaps she'd died. Ah I've just read Susan's post about Eliza dying in 1882. Mystery lady then!

Best regards,

Ian
+++

Susan
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:03 am
Location: Montrose, Scotland

Post by Susan » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:18 pm

Ian

I was also wondering if the man in the family photo was Robert and the woman on his left Susan his wife. The woman on the right of the picture looks quite similar to aunt Maggie and I thought she might be one of Robert's daughters or even Thirza, Christina's daughter.

As to the mystery lady sat in the middle - it's possible she could be Christina, Christina remember was born 17 years before her half-sister Maggie - so she could be the elderly lady in the centre. She did not die until 1936 aged 76.

As to where the photo might be taken, if it was at Summerfield Terrace it would have been round the back beside the wash houses and outhouses. I know someone who has stayed at 36 Summerfield Terrace since he was born in 1960 and the houses are tenaments - with very small gardens at the front - but if you go straight through the ground floor lobby and out the back they have long gardens with wash houses, outhouses and old outdoor toilets, and the back entrances look not unlike that in your picture. However the photo could just as easily been taken in Woodside where there were/are some cottage style houses, or even out in the country, given that Christina died at Glassel near Torphins, Thirza died at Birse and aunt Maggie at Aboyne.

Well still plenty to think about.

Susan.

imlincs
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:42 pm

Post by imlincs » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:18 pm

Hello Susan

I find it difficult to believe that my grandmother would have identified Aunt Maggie on the photo without mentioning that the seated lady was her mother.

Who knows? Maybe she did and I just don't remember.

On the other hand I believe my mother (born 1920) was taken on a visit to Aberdeen as a child by her mother who owned a box brownie (which I still have) and if it were my grandmother who took the photograph - the most obvious reason for it being in her possession - then it would be logical for her to have placed her mother at the centre of the group. Also if the other younger lady were Robert's daughter Susan (later Mrs Hossack, it could explain how my mother in London ended up corresponding 20 yrs later with Susan's daughter Kathleen (born 1919) in Aberdeen, having met as children and stayed in touch - I think I'm starting to convince myself. But then I've convinced myself erroneously before and I'm starting to ramble!

Ian
+++

AnneM
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Post by AnneM » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:31 pm

Hi Ian

It is possible that your grandmother did not know her mother very well (or even at all). My grandfather was illegitimate and brought up by his maternal grandparents as was his immediately younger brother. His mother married and had a couple of children by her husband. As far as I can make out he rarely had contact with her and regarded his grandparents as his real family. In fact he names them on his marriage certificate to my grandmother as his parents and my father who registered his death also named them as his parents, which they were not.

I remember as a child seeing frequently my grandfather's half sister in the village where I grew up and knowing her as Katie X but never thinking of her as my great aunt, which she was. This was despite having great aunts and uncles whom I referred to as Aunt this and Uncle that. A nice picture of one of them is on the Armed Forces forum.

Just reading this message I note that I refer to my grandfather's mother as just that and not as my great grandmother. I think it's worth bearing in mind in all of this that closeness of ties and affection sometimes have more bearing on how people refer to and relate to others in their family than strict blood relationships.

Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

grannysrock
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:21 am
Location: Belgium

Post by grannysrock » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:35 pm

Hi everyone
I've nothing to add on a genealogical note , I just wanted to congratulate everyone involved here and on Rootschat ( I have been following events on both threads) - it has been a fascinating journey and a great example of what persistence and teamwork can achieve .

Sally

AnneM
Global Moderator
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:51 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by AnneM » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:31 pm

Hi Ian

Just in case you thought I had forgotten to go and look again for Willliam and Christina senior this is to let you know that I, accompanied by my husband, set off today (the first good day in ages) to have a look. Unfortunately we searched the whole graveyard and could not find them. My next plan is to go to the ANEFHS shop in King Street when I can to see if they have a plan of the graveyard in the MI book. That might help. I do wonder if the stone has been damaged or if the writing has been worn off. Some of the stones are of fairly soft sandstone and may not have weathered too well, particularly given our NE climate.

Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

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