My Scottish Relatives....can you help???

KerryannH · Post by **KerryannH** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:44 am

G’day everyone…this is my first post on the TalkingScot forum.

I have what looks to be a ‘fairbit’ of info on my Scottish ancestors.
My ggg-grandfather and ggg-grandmother were David A (Anderson) Rogers and his wife Jeannie M (Mill) Mearns.
I have the seen the 1881 census for David A Rogers b. c1848 in Longforgan, Perthshire. He is listed as a Wood Merchant Clerk. His wife, Jeannie M Rogers was aborn in c1848 in Aberdeen Aberdeenshire.
They had 5 children-
Ada D M b. 1875, Forfashire
David RKM b.1878, Forfashire (My gg-grandfather)
Ernest GM b.1879, Forfashire
Ewart GM b.1880, Forfashire
Jessie M b.1881. Forfashire
They had a further son, Leonard in Forfashire Scotland after Ernest's death. Jeannie may have been pregnant at the time of Ernest’s death. Once in Australia they had a further 6 children, sadly only one surviving to adulthood. (So much for Australia being the ‘lucky country’.)

I have also seen David A Rogers and Jeannie M Mearns marriage certificate. It took place on 8 Oct 1874 at 47 Hawkhill Dundee “after banns according to forms of the Church of Scotland. The minister was James Mackay of St. Clements (the church??) It also gives the names of each parent- Thomas Rogers & Margaret Anderson employed as Gardener and Domestic servant, living 59 ‘shirest’ Street Dundee & George Mearns and Agnes Forbes employed as Dentist, living at 1 Commercial St Dundee. Both George and Agnes were deceased at the time of their daughter's marriage. The marriage was witnesses by George Rogers (Grooms brother, uncle???) and Agnes Mearns (Brides sister, aunt???)

My Scottish rellies emigrated to Australia and arrived on the ‘Ellora’ on the 11 June 1883.

So what do I want to know??? Is there anyone who could do a look up for me and find the bdm of David A and Jeannie’s parents. Do they have brothers and sisters, etc? Any help would be very much appreciated.
Maybe you recognize the names listed and we are very distantly related; there’s got to be some left in Scotland.

Thankyou for reading my post and for any assistance.
Kerryann

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:25 am

Hi Welcome to TS.
I did a quick search of the IGI at Family Search.org and came up with:

The IGI at FamilySearch.org has:

DAVID RODGER Male
Birth: 11 DEC 1847
Christening: 09 JAN 1848 Longforgan, Perth, Scotland
Father: THOMAS RODGER
Mother: MARGARET ANDERSON
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record

His Parents Marriage:
THOMAS RODGER
Spouse: MARGARET ANDERSON
Marriage: 02 APR 1843 Longforgan, Perth, Scotland
another entry:
Marriage: 01 APR 1843 Liff Benvie And Invergowrie, Angus, Scotland
[The marriage Banns were called in the parish each party lived]

A Parent Search for this couple gives:

GEORGE INVERARITY RODGER
Birth: 04 DEC 1850
Christening: 15 DEC 1850 Longforgan, Perth, Scotland

JANET REID RODGER Female
Birth: 05 FEB 1855 Monifieth, Angus, Scotland
Now, Janet's birth on Scotland's People could be worth a look as that year gave a LOT more information than subsequent entries.

There was a JAMES CRAMOND RODGER Male
Birth: 22 MAR 1838 Longforgan, Perth, Scotland born to the same parent's names but seems a bit early [coincidence or misstranscription?].

Freecen aren't coming up with any obvious households, but look for the family groups on ScotlandsPeople [link at top of the page]

I'll look for Jeanie Mearns in a bit.

KerryannH · Post by **KerryannH** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:41 am

Wow!!! thankyou so much Wilma.
I have obviously using IGI incorrectly will have to practise more.

Gee I love my scots' family names....they can't be described as boring.
I look forward to further information later. I am really appreciative of your help as I have posted a similar message on another forum and I am yet to receive a reply. I'm sticking with TS from now on.
$\:D/$ Kerryann

Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:42 am

Hi Kerryann,

Welcome to TalkingScot.

The 1851 census shows Thomas and Margaret Rodger (or Bodger if you are using Ancestry

) can be found in Longforgan. This gives birthplaces for the parents and children.

In 1861, they are a few miles east from there in Monifeith. The youngest child to them shown in that census is 6 years old, and the bonus of that is her birth was in 1855 - the first year if statutory registration in Scotland. In 1855, there was more information given on the birth, marriage and death certificates than in any other year. Note: in the 1861 census she is named as Jesse Roger. On her birth certificate she is given the more formal name Janet Rodger.

With a surname like Rodger, you are always going to have to check various spellings, or where available use wildcards, such as Ro*ger* to cover for Ro(d)ger(s).

According to the online IGI, their 1843 marriage looks to be in the Old Parochial Registers (OPRs) for two parishes - presumably the banns were proclaimed in each of their home parishes. These should both be available for download on ScotlandsPeople.

From the 1855 birth certificate (and marriage OPR entries) you will have Margaret's maiden surname. If you go to ScotlandsPeople, and search for Margaret's death using both surnames you will find only 7 results from 1861 to 1920 (a reasonable guess for a top limit). One of them is found in the same place as they were found in the 1861 census. That death certificates gives here parents name and whether she was married or widowed. That gives you a pointer in looking for Thomas's death.

Using Margaret's death year and one of the other years I set for Margaret's potential death years (knowing whether Thomas died before or after Margaret), and the same place as Margaret died (a best guess), Thomas's death is easily found. It gives another new nugget of information - he was married twice. There were children to both marriages.

There's some homework for you.

All the best,

AndrewP

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:57 am

Jeanie seems to be:

JANET MEARNS Female
Christening: 17 DEC 1831 Old Machar, Aberdeen, Scotland
Father: GEORGE MEARNS
Mother: AGNES FORBES
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record

Janet/Jane/Jeanie etc were interchangable

Paents Marriage:

GEORGE MEARNS
Spouse: AGNES FORBES
Marriage: 08 APR 1831 Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland

Her siblings seems to be:
ALEXANDER MEARNS - Male
Christening: 01 MAY 1842 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Agnes <Mearns> Female
Christening: 05 JAN 1845 Tay Square United Presbyterian, Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Jane Milne <Mearns> Female
Christening: 12 DEC 1847 Charlotte Street United Associate Congregation, Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland

Again, FreeCen aren't giving the goods but scotlandspeople will have the cenuses for the family .

Incidentaly your gg-grandfather David would have been born in FORFARSHIRE, Angus.
Do you know what all the Middle initials are for him and his siblings?
I would strongly suspect they will be clues as to the wider family.

If George Mearns was a Dentist [as the 1874 marriage indicates] then he may be found in trade directories.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:12 am

Hi Kerryann

Thomas Rogers & Margaret Anderson employed as Gardener and Domestic servant, living 59 ‘shirest’ Street Dundee & George Mearns and Agnes Forbes employed as Dentist, living at 1 Commercial St Dundee.

Is ‘shirest’ a part which is difficult to read on the original? It does not sound like a Dundee street name to me. If you have the marriage entry, you could upload it to the gallery (instructions here:
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6496) and we could see if we can locate the correct street for you.

I believe there was a St Clements church in the old city centre, now no longer there (near Commercial Street, so that would make sense) There now seems to be another St Clements church in Dundee, but in a different area.

Oh, and welcome to Talking Scot.

Best wishes
Lesley

KerryannH · Post by **KerryannH** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:43 am

Again thank you sooo much, it was certainly worthwhile posting on TS!!!! Andrew, Lesley & Wilma you have given me many leads....I didn't knbow about wildcards but will regularly used them now.
Wilma you asked me about the middle names of David & Jeannie's children...yes I know them..they are as follows.
Ava Davina Mearns Rogers
David Robertson Kirkland Mearns R
Ernest/Erenst George Mearns R
Ewart Gladstone Mearns R (named after British Prime Minister ???)
Jessie Davidson Mearns R
Leonard Ernest Mearns R
All children including those born in Aus. carried the Mearns name just prior to the Rogers surname.

Lesley I will scan and post the Marriage certificate for David A Rogers and Jeannie Mill Mearns later today, hopefully. Then you can try and decifer the street name for me.
Once again thanks for all the help it has given me many avenues to follow....hmmm wildcards. Gotta love em.
Kerryann

KerryannH · Post by **KerryannH** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:56 am

Hi all...me again.

JANET MEARNS Female
Christening: 17 DEC 1831 Old Machar, Aberdeen, Scotland
Father: GEORGE MEARNS
Mother: AGNES FORBES

vs

Jane Milne <Mearns> Female
Christening: 12 DEC 1847 Charlotte Street United Associate Congregation, Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland

WandaM I know that the Jane Mile Mearns is my ggg-grandmother....she was born in 1847 and we know her as Jeannie Mill Mearns (this being recorded on her marriage and death certificate) Sadly jeannie died on 20th October 1892 at the age of 45years of TB. I feel that she was probably worn out after giving birth to 12 children and witnessing the death of 6. Wanda how and where do I find the trade directories you mentioned?

AndrewP in a past life were you a teacher?? You take my queries, gently take me by the hand and guide me in the right direction leaving me to experience the discovery. It's what I tried to do with my students.
To all others who have helped me or will help me in the future....I also enjoy being spoon-fed!!!

Now LesleyB, I thankyou for your help too and am going to try to upload a copy of David Anderson Rogers & Jeannie Mill Mearns marriage certificate. (didn't work the file was too big...gotta find a way to make it smaller.

)

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:24 am

Janet must be an older sister to Jane/Jeannie then - the names can be interchanged and it's not uncommon to find several variations in the one family [confusingly]
Have you found them in the census records to confirm that? and any other 'stray' siblings or sundry relations in the household that night.

Doing a google search for your dentist mannie could work, or try using some of the old newspaper search sites could bring up a few gems along the way.
I'd make sure you had all the 'official' BMD and census records first to have a clear picture of the whole families' whereabouts and movements over the years.

Bear the children's middle names in mind on further searches, they may prove significant in confirming connections.

Glad we've been of help to you - happy hunting!

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:54 pm

Hi Kerryann,
You'll find George & Agnes Mearns and 5 children (including the early Janet) in Smalls Lane in Dundee, Angus in 1841 on FreeCen. George is a Machine Maker Journeyman-- did he invent some brilliant dental machine and then decide to become a dentist?

Have to admit I got intrigued by the change of occupation and just had to follow him along

In 1851 they are in Liff and Benvie, Dundee, Angus with 7 children in the household now, including your Jane/Jean. George is still a machinist. What is interesting is that Jean was born in Dundee according to the census, yet you have her christening in Aberdeen. So they must have taken her to their home church for christening.

By 1861 Agnes appears to have died, and George has finally become a dentist. He and two daughters (including Jean) are still in Dundee. I don't see George in 1871, and there appears to be a death for him in 1864 in Dundee... so his dental career wasn't very long.

All the best,
Sarah