Paterson/Philp

[Eileen]

Hi All
Hope you had a good Christmas and New Year.
In May 2008 I asked for help with my Paterson’s.
David Paterson married Janet Paterson in 1828 Clackmannan
Children (as 1841 census SP)
Mary 1832
George 1834(my line)
Joseph 1836
Christine 1839
Marriage cert. for boys gave mothers MS as Paterson but death cert. gave it as Philps.
I have found a death cert for Janet Paterson widow of David Paterson (miner) who died in 1896 Dunfermline her mothers MS was Philp, is this where the confusion comes from?
In 1851 Janet was in Carnock, Forth Iron Works with Joseph and 2 more children, (no David) In subsequent census returns she seems to have a son John Condie (1861Census) John C Paterson (1871 Census) but in 1871 Janet’s birth place is given as Dunfermline? There is also a John Hunter (nephew 1871) but he appears in 1881 with Janet as Grandmother and she was born in Stirling. In 1891 she appears (still born in Stirling) with her daughter Marjory. Is this the same Janet?
Marjory turns up as Mary White, Margaret Paterson, Marjory Rankine(take your pick). Her cert’s same as boys.
Janet’s son James 1847 Clackmannan cert’s the same.
Janet did marry Malcolm Condie in 1850 (LDS) but his death cert in 1859 only says he was married. The informant is George Paterson Smith? brother-in-law the writing on this is all squashed up and hard to read.
Taking what I had above I assumed David had come with his family to fife and died between 1847-1850.
Fife Death Index has a David Paterson age 42 Miner Carnock. Forth Iron Works died in 1849 could this be him?
How do I find out if there is more info somewhere?
Oh dear on reading this back it’s a bit long winded.
Hope someone can understand and help, I am 99% sure this is my family just need someone to agree with me.
Thank You
Eileen

[LesleyB]

Hi Eileen

Fife Death Index has a David Paterson age 42 Miner Carnock. Forth Iron Works died in 1849 could this be him?
How do I find out if there is more info somewhere?

The Fife Death Index tells you where the info has come from:

David Paterson
Carnock,Forth Iron Works
date of burial: 24 Mar 1849
Aged 42, occupation: miner
Source OPR414-3 Old Parochial Registers

- and that would be the first place where you might look to see if there was any further information, though in this case I think it is unlikely that the OPR will give much more in the way of info.
(you can see the Dunfermline OPR deaths in Cupar Library, upstairs, in this case you want film OPR 414-3)
Not seeing any Patersons in the Carnock Churchyard MIs, either...)

Still having fun wi' those Patersons, I see!

Best wishes
Lesley

[Eileen]

Hi Lesley
Those Patersons are running me ragged, will go to Cupar first.
Is there any chance the crem in Dunfermline would have any records.
I am looking at Ritchie's in Markinch and been told to contact Kirkcaldy crem.
I have a 2nd cousin in london who is also doing tree so we are working to gether on it. Nice to have another Paterson/Murray helping.
Eileen

[LesleyB]

Hi Eileen

Is there any chance the crem in Dunfermline would have any records.

It would do no harm to ask; I once contacted them and was given info concerning the burial location following 1885 death in Dunfermline. Not sure if they have details as far back as 1849, but if you don't ask, you'll not know!

It's good that you've found someone to collaborate with - two heads are often better than one.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Eileen]

Hi Lesley
I went to Cupar,
David Paterson died 24/3/1849 buried 28/3/1849 Carnock Churchyard
So a little more info there.

Looked at Ritchie's in Markinch(mothers side) had more luck there.
William d 1852 death notice was in paper but only details I already had.
OPR gave situation of grave.
Mary Ritchie ms Wilson died 1/5/1828 age 46 Cancer. 5 shillings was paid for mort cloth. She was buried in Markinch cemertary "at head of father's feet" anyone any idea what this means?

Thank you
Eileen

[LesleyB]

Hi Eileen

Mary Ritchie ms Wilson died 1/5/1828 age 46 Cancer. 5 shillings was paid for mort cloth. She was buried in Markinch cemertary "at head of father's feet" anyone any idea what this means?

My guess woudl be that it is maybe a family lair and a description is given as to the position where she was buried in the lair... but I'm not sure why you would say "at head of" fathers feet. Unless it refers to "foot stones" which may have been there at some point to mark the corners of the plot. Maybe someone else can come up with some better ideas!

That's good that you found some further info in the OPRs. It is usually worth checking, just incase. Sometimes there is no further info, but sometimes there is!

Best wishes
Lesley

[Currie]

Maybe it just means that she’s buried in the same grave as her father and the “Feet” represents the depth she’s at, but the number before “Feet” has not been transcribed or has been lost at the edge of the page or whatever. Such as “at head of father's (grave), (5) feet”

Just guessing,
Alan

[Ozebeaver]

Hello,
I hope I do not confuse the situation any further but I have the following who I believe are the same family that you are talking about.
Marjory Philp 1. George Paterson 30 Apr 1802 Dunfermline 2. Robert Smith 16 Dec 1814 Dunfermline
17 Apr 1855 Blair Row Forth Iron Work Carnock Informant Malcolm Condie Son in law.
Death cert states the above marriages without dates and the following issue.
1. Christian, John, Janet, Agnes
2. Robert, James, Margaret, John, Christian, Richard, George.

The above George Smith is George Paterson SMITH born 1823 and married Ann Hunter.
So the Janet Paterson born to Marjory and George Paterson would be the above George sister and hence the brother in law on Malcolm Condie's death cert.
In 1841 census
Clackmannan
Riccarton Colliery Row
Marjory Smith 57 IND NO
Richard Smith 19 Coal miner NO
Christian Smith 16 No
George Smith 13 No

In 1851 Census no sign of Marjory with the Condie family. Although death cert does state that she was only in residence 3 months.
Carnock Fife
Forth Iron Works
Address: 2 Blair Row
414 ED: 2 Page: 14 schedule 45

Malcom Condie 43 Lodger Ironstone Miner
Janet Paterson 44 Head
Christina Paterson 12 daughter
Elisabeth Paterson 7 daughter
James Paterson 6 son
Joseph Paterson 14 son
John Keir 18 lodger


My husband is descended from the SMITH line. It took me ages to figure this out and I have been very lucky that parents were noted in full on Robert's death in 1859 and such good info on Marjory's death in 1855.

If I can help further please let me know.

Cheers
Liz

[SarahND]

Hello Liz and
Nice that you have further information on this family! Eileen has not been on the forum in two years, but if she has kept her same email address she should receive a notification of your post. If you don't hear in a week or two, you might try sending her a pm (click on the button under one of her posts) and hope that gets to her.

All the best,
Sarah

[Ozebeaver]

Thanks Sarah. I really haven't been doing anything much with this line and this research was done in 2006. So many more records online these days. The Paterson/Philp and Robert Smith nearly drove me crazy and it really was not until I got that 1855 dc for Marjory that everything fell into place. Mind you I still have not found anyone with the name 'Lydia Inglis' that is connected to this family or in Clackmannan. She is my husband's ancestor and the daughter of James Smith and Agnes Sharp.
I will keep in mind what you have said and send a pm in a week or so.

Liz