BRICK WALL!!!!

applejack · Post by **applejack** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:54 pm

Hi, could anyone help me find the parentage of George Webster Dorward, whos birth is unknown, but is likely to have been living in the Monifieth area. He was living with my gg grandfather William Dorward b1853 , Scotland, when William passed away in Bourke Australia in 1920s. The name Webster could have been a maiden name of his mother? as William gave this name as a middle name to at least two of his children. Any information will be greatfully recieved, thanks.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:36 pm

Hi Applejack
Have you tried a search on Scotlands People or the IGI to see if any likely contenders turn up? Can you give us a rough idea of age of George - is he likely to be ages with your grandfather or older/younger?

There appears to be one George Webst* Dorward on Scotlands People - have you checked that one out?

There are quite a few Dorwards in that area as far as I remember...

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:40 pm

Hi Applejack,

On the online IGI, there are two marriage records for George Dorward and Margaret Webster, presumably the banns being called in the home parish of the bride and the groom, in February 1840 in Monifieth and Dundee. The OPR pages should be available on ScotlandsPeople for you to download.

That has to be a good possibility for you.

It may be worth following them up through the censuses of 1841, 1851 etc, until they emigrated.

All the best,

AndrewP

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:41 pm

WHile there are no births listed to them on the IGI there is this marriage that may be of interest....

GEORGE DORWARD Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: MARGARET WEBSTER
Marriage: 09 FEB 1840 Monifieth, Angus, Scotland

Not sure if this fits within an expected age frame for you. Perhaps your George Webster Dorward was a son of theirs?

From the OPR marriage records found on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk you'll learn that George was a weaver and Margaret was from Dundee. Her father's name is also given.

Best wishes
Jean

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:44 pm

The George Webst* Dorward on SP was born in 1876 Monifieth ( I found this by using the search page there - it is free to search)

If it is the correct one, then downloading a copy of the original birth entry will give you the parents.

Best wishes
Lesley

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:04 pm

Thanks to Lesley we now see that there is another generation in the middle.....George and Margaret had a James who had George Webster Dorward.

Looks like you've got a wealth of info to sift through now!!

Best wishes
Jean

Montrose Budie · Post by **Montrose Budie** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:46 pm

A fascinating example of the benefit of taking a punt on the connection between the middle name and the surname, i.e. in this case looking for a marriage between DORWARD and WEBSTER. (OK, in this situation the 1876 birth record of George Webster DURWARD also opens up the situation.)

Why do I write 'taking a punt' ? Simply because the related marriage may well have been between a DORWARD and someone of an entirely different surname !

In this case the technique was successful.

But what is the connection between George and William?

The 1881 census provides the following .........

Dwelling: Moncurs Land
Census Place: Monifieth, Forfar, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203496 GRO Ref Volume 310 EnumDist 11 Page 15
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Jas. DORWARD M 31 M Monifieth, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Iron Moulder
Ann DORWARD M 29 F Monifieth, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Wm. DORWARD 7 M Monifieth, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
George DORWARD 4 M Monifieth, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Son
Margaret DORWARD W 68 F Monifieth, Forfar, Scotland
Rel: Mo

In other words Wullie was most probably George's elder brother !

William Webster DURWARD was born in 1873 in Monifieth.

I can't see an unambigous 1890 or later shipping list record for William emigrating to Oz, but that may be because he first travelled to somewhere other than Oz (not uncommon BTW), or that he emigrated before 1890.

On the other hand, there is a record for a George DURWARD as follows,

Name: George DORWARD
Date of departure: 26 July 1911
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Melbourne, Australia
Passenger destination: Melbourne, Australia

Date of Birth: 1876 (calculated from age)
Age: 35
Marital status: Married
Sex: Male
Occupation: Farmer
Passenger recorded on: Page 4 of 19

The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -

Mrs Agnes DORWARD Page 4 of 19
Mary DORWARD Page 4 of 19

Ship: GEELONG
Official Number: 118426
Master's name: D C Simmonds
Steamship Line: P & O Branch Service
Where bound: Australia
Square feet: 14502
Registered tonnage: 5029
Passengers on voyage: 736

Note that a family from Scotland travelled down to London for the ship to Australia !, - far from unusual; as was travelling to Liverpool or other English ports, or Belfast and other NI ports, or even Dublin.

Which leads to the 1901 marriage of George Webster DORWARD, parents
James DORWARD and Ann FINLAY, to Agnes Elliot WHITECROSS, proving that this is indeed the correct George - QED !!

mb

applejack · Post by **applejack** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:29 pm

Hi guys, thanks for all the searching, you have all seemed to of demolished the brick wall!! So it was margaret who had the name Webster, as i had thought... also the Finlay/Findlay name had also been used as a middle name with Williams daughter Annie Findlay Dorward b1900. My next post would of had me asking, where the Findlay name Annie required came from! The only thing that is still confusing me is that William Dorward b1873/4, died in Salford Manchester in 1912. Yet William who died in Austrailia was born in 1853. Could it be that James Dorward was his brother then? Thanks again for all your help as everything else seems to fit. Regards Applejack

Montrose Budie · Post by **Montrose Budie** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:02 pm

I forgot to add the info that, in his 1901 Scottish marriage register entry, the 'Usual Residence' of George Webster Dorward is shown as South Lambeth, Surrey; his occupation is Engine-Smith.

mb

Montrose Budie · Post by **Montrose Budie** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:53 am

Aye weel, that'll learn me, as we say in my part of Scotland. Next time I'll reread the original post before making any suggestions !

George and William could hardly have been brothers.

There is an 1861 census entry in Monifieth showing widow Margaret with wains James and William, the latter aged 8, so most likely born 1852/53.

Her husband George, if this is the correct Margaret, most probably died in 1859. I can only write 'most probably' as that is one the years in the late 1850s/early 1860s when the name of the deceased's spouse was not shown. In this case, the informant is the brother James rather than the widow. If this is the correct record then it shows his parents.

However, the place matches, as does the occupation in terms of descendants.

I'd like to have seen the 1851 census, but this is one of those few images which aren't available, never mind that, in the index, I can't see a matching family grouping (anyone want to try in the Ancestry index?, - the parish is Monifieth, but Margaret may have been visiting relatives or friends on census night); and the Mormon LDS FamilyHistory website doesn't help in terms of births!, although, as noted earlier, there's a dual record of the marriage in Monifieth/Dundee.

Which all leaves me with the conclusion that William, died 1920s in Oz, was probably the uncle of George, but no final proof as yet ...........

Incidentally, Margaret survived to the grand old age of 80.

mb