McNeill - Perthshire.....

Dyan · Post by **Dyan** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:26 am

Hi there, first time on site.
I am looking for a needle in a haystack but I hope someone can help as my Mum is not well and I hoped I could find family to make contact or compile family tree for her. The info I have is limited but if someone can help that would be fantastic.
Grandfather - John McNeill, sisters Isabelle, Molly, brother Donald
Grandmother - Mary (nee Marshall) sister Chrisie
chldren, Ishbelle, Margaret, John and Torquil.
Margaret was born in 1952 in Perthshire, baptised in Presbertain church
Isbelle born in 1951
John and Mary married in 1951 or thereabouts.
John born in 1898 or thereabouts.
Could be John was born in Crieff.
If this info is not enought please let me know what else would help and I will try to gather some more. Family immigrated to NZ about 1960
John worked at a boat company in Perthshire during WW2.

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:37 am

Hi Dyan,

Welcome to TalkingScot.

Most of the records needed to find your family group are too recent to be available online. The online records are restricted to births 1904 or earlier (at least 100 years ago); marriages 1929 or earlier (at least 75 years ago); and deaths 1954 or earlier (at least 50 years ago).

The only access to these younger records is to have someone go into New Register House, Edinburgh for you.

However, if you have any older family information that are of the dates available online, then that opens a whole lot of information to you, assuming the peope stayed in Scotland. The online certificates are available at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for a fee.

For John's 1898 (or thereabouts) birth, you would need to have some more information to narrow down which is the right John McNeill - for best certainty, you would need to know the names of his parents. Having someone do the New Register House research may be your only way of finding these names if you do not have them handed down through the family to you.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:03 pm

Hi Dyan

Andrew is quite correct in all the information he states above. There is a slim chance however that this might be your John McNeill on the 1901 census age 2......I searched for John McNeill in Perthshire all districts ages 0-6...and can you believe there is only one???!!

1901 MCNEILL JOHN M 2 MONZIEVAIRD AND STROWAN PERTH 383/00 003/00 001

If this is your family it won't tell you much but could confirm John's place of birth.....you can search and view the record on Scotland's People website by buyng some credits.

Hope this helps!!

Best wishes
Jean

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:20 am

Monzievaird & Strowan is the next-door parish to Crieff, so there is a good chance this is the right one. The parish boundary is immediately west of Crieff. Based on that information, a birth certificate should be easy to locate on the ScotlandsPeople website.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:38 am

Hi again Dyan

This one was so tempting that I couldn’t leave it alone! I had a wee peek at the census and you can get quite a bit of info from it afterall….such as confirming the birthplace of this John McNeill as Crieff!! It also indicates that John’s father was William and his mother was Jane Ann. In 1901 William appears as the eldest son at age 5, next comes John age 2 and then little Ann Arnott age 9 mos. Oh yes…next door is another McNeill family that surely must be an uncle, aunt and cousin to John. A death search for William McNeill turns up a very likely prospect in 1949 and that directs you to his parents and the maiden name of his wife Jane Ann (nae prizes for guessing it’s Arnott!). Using those parents names turns up an unmarried William with his family in 1881 as follows:

Dwelling: Willoughby St
Census Place: Muthill, Perth, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203510 GRO Ref Volume 386-A EnumDist 7 Page 6
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John MC NEIL M 42 M Muthill, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Carter
Bettsy MC NEIL M 45 F Inverness, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Alexander MC NEIL U 18 M Inverness, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Mason
Peter MC NEIL U 18 M Inverness, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Plumber
John MC NEIL 15 M Inverness, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Tailor
William MC NEIL 9 M Muthill, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
James MC NEIL 6 M Muthill, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Donald MC NEIL 3 M Muthill, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Son

A parent search on the IGI of John and Elizabeth (aka Bettsy as above) will reveal birth details of several of their children.

I’m leaving plenty of room for you to find some info out on your own but this should give you a good boost for tracing this McNeill line.

There is only one tiny detail.

I can’t be absolutely certain this is the right McNeill family as the only facts you state about John McNeill are siblings Isabelle, Molly and Donald. With what I’ve found so far there is only a William and an Ann.

A Birth search from 1901 to 1904 spits out half a page full of McNeill births in Perthshire but still there was no Isabelle. Maybe one of our resident nickname experts could shed some light on this area….or maybe she was born after 1904. I really hope this is your family and if I were a betting person I’d put money on it being your family!! However….at the moment the proof seems to still be tucked away in the newer than online records found at New Register House in Edinburgh….

Hope I haven’t made things even more confusing...

Best wishes
Jean

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:22 pm

That'll teach me!!! 'Fraid I have some bad news..... The John McNeill age 2 in 1901 son of William and Ann Arnott cannot be yours!! The reason being quite simple......he died in 1936 age 38 and was married to Grace Wallace at the time!!! That was the bad news....now for the good news!! I just uncovered a second John McNeill birth hiding under the spelling of McNiell...in 1902 so he just missed the census. He was born to James and Mary who were the couple living next door on the 1901 census. So looks like it's very possible this is the correct branch. I was in the right church but wrong pew so to speak

Once again.....the final proof will be in the New Register House records as we still lack a Donald, Molly, and Isabelle

Sorry for the confusion.....

Best wishes
Jean

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:54 pm

Hi Dyan

Is there any chance that Molly, Isabelle, and Donald were half siblings to John

.......you see.......we're back to square one if the surname Bain doesn't ring any bells. Mary McNeill mother to the John born in 1902 was widowed and remarried in 1904

.... to a Donald Bain which surely could help explain where the Donald name comes from. If this new found John is the right one then he was raised in a Bain household......

Ok...I'm absolutely going to be quiet now.....I don't think I can do any more damage anyhow

Best wishes
Jean

Dyan · Post by **Dyan** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:54 pm

Hi Jean,
thanks so much for all your help. There a some skeletons in my grandmothers closet I believe. John was the eldest of his sibblings. Mum is starting to think Isabelle was her great Aunty not a sibling of Johns. Donald was about 12 yrs younger than john.
I will go back to Mum and see if can try to piece it together.
Again thank you so much Jean, very kind.