Robertson Family Brick Wall

[KazG]

Hi all
As a newbie to the forums let me first say what a fantastic resource this is! Thanks to the moderators, for someone on the other side of the world it's going to hopefully be a big help and now on to my brick wall.

I have my 3 x Grandfather came out to Victoria, some time prior to his marriage in 1881.
His name was James Robertson DOB 1856 in Dundee
His Death Cert stated his parents were Alexander Robertson and Susan Bruce.
The IGI gave me :
Extract of entry in OPR Parish of
Kirkmichael, County of Perth
Proclaimed on the Sabbath’s 9th & 16th June 1833 in order to be married. Banns called in both Rattray and Kirkmichael.
I obtained a copy of the OPR.
Also in the IGI
1. IGI for “William Robertson” Born 15th April
1833, Rattray Perth, Scotland parents were Alexander Robertson and Susan
Bruce

2.IGI for a William Robertson born 15th April 1833,
Baptised 30th June 1833, Kirkmichael, Perth, Scotland Parents: Alexander
Robertson and Susan Bruce “Downie”

Now James is my brickwall, I am not sure where to go with so many James Robertsons - I have not been able to locate his birth. William is the only other birth I have managed to locate for Alexander and Susan.
Last night I found a birth for Susan (1803) (am hoping that it is my Susan Bruce, with parents William Bruce and Janet Robertson
Any hints or help on which direction I should take next would be much appreciated.

Ah my James had several daughters and two sons, James Alexander and Robert David Bruce, Robert David was KIA in Belgium and on reading his file it states that his Father was in receipt of a WAR pension. Now as he was not in any of the Australian forces, given the time period DOB 1856 and in Australia by 1881 would there be a chance this would be a Scots pension?

Yours in much confusion
Kaz Robertson-Gorrie

[AndrewP]

Hi Kaz,

Welcome to TalkingScot.

Does his Australian marriage certificate show his parents' names? It is not uncommon for the parents' names to be wrong on the death certificate, particularly where these people were scarcely known to the informant to the registrar. At least on the marriage certificate, the names should be given by the groom, and hopefully more accurate.

I am wondering if the couple of the 1833 marriage were his grandparents rather than his parents.

All the best,

AndrewP

[nelmit]

Here's a likely looking family in 1871 Living at Perth Road, Dundee-

Alexander Robertson 57 born Leith (Fireman)
Susan B Robertson 58 born Kirkmichael, Perthshire
Alexander Robertson 25 born Newtyle, Angus
James Robertson 19 born Lundie, Perthshire (Railway Stoker)
Annie Robertson 27 Born Lundie, Perthshire

Here's the same family in 1841 (with a William of the correct age) at Lundie form FREECEN -

Piece: SCT1841/306 Place: Lundie -Angus Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Lundie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 1 Page: 4
Address: Sunny Hall Cottage No.4

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROBERTSON Alexr M 28 Ag Lab Outside Census County (1841)
ROBERTSON Susan F 28 Outside Census County (1841)
ROBERTSON William M 8 Outside Census County (1841)
ROBERTSON Mary F 5 Outside Census County (1841)
ROBERTSON Robert M 3 Outside Census County (1841)
ROBERTSON Margaret F 1 Angus

They are at the same address in 1851 (with another son David) and 1861.

Regards,
Annette

[SarahND]

Hi Kaz and welcome,
I like the family Annette found and as she said, they were still in Lundie in 1861, with James mis-transcribed on Ancestry as Jane (but a "Son"...)

1861
Sunnyhall, Lundie, Angus
Alexander Robertson, 50, Head, born Leith, Edinburghshire, Ploughman
Susan Robertson, 50, Wife, born Kirkmichael, Perthshire
Margaret Robertson, 20, Daughter, born Lundie, Perthshire, Out Door Worker
Jane Robertson, 10, Son, born Lundie, Perthshire, Scholar

And also in 1851, where James is only 3 months old. So it is looking like you have his birth year a few years too late. Did you get that from his death certificate?

1851
Sunnyhall, Lundie, Angus
Alexander Robertson, 40, Head, born Edinburgh, Agricultural Labourer
Susan Robertson, 41, Wife, born Kirkmichael, Forfarshire, Weaver
Margaret Robertson, 11, Daughter, born Lundie, Forfarshire, Scholar
Ann Robertson, 9, Daughter, born Lundie, Forfarshire, Scholar
Alexander Robertson, 6, Son, born Newtyle, Forfarshire
David Robertson, 3, Son, born Kittons, Forfarshire
James Robertson, 3 Mo, Son, born Lundie, Forfarshire

Looks like the family may not have been Church of Scotland, since I don't see any of the births for the children we see in the various censuses. This is ringing a loud bell in my head, since Alexander was born in Leith. There is another member of Talking Scot, who now lives in New Zealand, whose ancestor Edward Robertson was born in South Leith in 1821 and his birth record, not in the OPRs, was finally found in the Episcopal Church records. Alexander may come from the same family, although with a name like Robertson it is hard to be sure! In any case, they might well have been Episcopal, in which case there is no point in banging your head against the OPR wall

Susan Robertson other surname Bruce born 1811 +/- 3 years, died in Monifieth, Angus in 1891

She is there in the 1891 census, with daughter Annie age 38 born Lundie and a granddaughter Eleanor age 18, born Dundee. Looks like Alexander has died by this time.

I don't see Alexander and Susan in 1881... Any chance they went to Australia too and then at least Susan came back?

All the best,
Sarah

[KazG]

Oh my goodness! What a wonderful group of messages to wake up to!

The comment about them being episcopalian - that is born out by the fact that when James married, it was in the Wesleyan (Methodist) Church.
His Marriage certificate along with his childrens birth certificates, were all filled out by James.
The Naming pattern for his children, it fits. His eldest child, a daughter was Margaret.
Then Louise, then Susan Bruce, then the two boys. ...and my Dad was always told he was named for an Uncle, David. Now it appears that the David has been passed down the line too! (As well as James Alexander Bruce )
The DOB for James - well, that could well have been a couple of years earlier yes it was from his death cert, which was filled by a hospital as at that point he had no family around and there was a couple of years difference between that and his marriage certificate.

I have been trying to break this wall down for so long, THANKYOU ALL for your help! Hopefully, our cousin from across the pond who is also on the forums will read this and make contact



Have done a google search on Sunnyhall with not much success, can anyone tell me what/where it was. Have had a look at Google Earth for 212 Perth Road Dundee and it is currently a Costume Shop.

[LesleyB]

Hi KazG
...and welcome to Talking Scot

The comment about them being episcopalian - that is born out by the fact that when James married, it was in the Wesleyan (Methodist) Church.

These two are quite different churches; Episcopalian and Methodist, but neither are likely to appear in the OPRs as neither were Church of Scotland, the established church.

There was a Wesleyan (Methodist) Church in Leith, some of the records for which are at the National Archives of Scotland, but I think the baptismal records start a little too late for Alexander, if this is where he is likley to have been:

CH11/12 Records of the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, (Great Junction Street), Leith 1834-1994
CH11/12/14 Baptismal register 1834-1875

Best wishes
Lesley

[nelmit]

'Friends of Dundee' have an index of Weslayan baptisms online - obviously you won't find any of Alexander and Susan's children but maybe some of their grandchildren?

Actually I haven't visited the site for a while but they've been very busy - lots of new indexes including an 1801 census that appears to show heads of households and how may people within it but no addresses.

Well worth a visit if you have ancestors from the Dundee area. http://www.fdca.org.uk/FDCAHome1.html

Regards,
Annette

[KazG]

Thankyou for that Lesley!

I must say I have never found a more helpful group of people, you have absolutely made my day! =D>

Thankyou all.

[KazG]

Hi Annette
That is quite a site and one I have bookmarked for regular visits!
Thankyou.

[nelmit]

My favourite is this one - http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/photodb/page65.htm You can take a walk along Perth Road and get a flavour of life there around 1900. My husband's ancestors stayed at various addresses at that end of Perth Road so they were neighbours. There's also pictures of Broughty Ferry.

The site has a great search engine but unfortunately when I put in an address or a name I just get a blank page. Hopefully it will work for you as it did for me in the past. If the search doesn't work start at page 79.

Regards,
Annette