Robert Neil

[elise]

Hi, I'm new to researching family history overseas and would love to get some help on how to locate information on births and deaths that occurred before 1855.

I am searching for Robert Neil (or Neill) born approx.1825 in Edinburgh or Glasgow.
He married Mary Cooper in Glasgow in 1844 and their children are as follows:

John born 1844 (Edinburgh or Glasgow?), died 1927 in Amphitheatre Victoria Australia
Mary born ? (Edinburgh or Glasgow?), died ?
George Holmes Cooper born 1847 (Edinburgh or Glasgow?), died 1908 in Amphitheatre Victoria Australia
Charles born ? (Ediburgh or Glasgow?), died ?
Thomas born ? (Edinburgh or Glasgow?), died ?
Robert born 1852 (Ediburgh or Glasgow?), died 1924 in Amphitheatre Victoria Australia
Mary born 1855 Castlemaine VIC Aus, died 1926 Ararat VIC Aus.
James born 1858 Amphitheatre VIC Aus, died 1925 Footscary VIC Aus
Annie born 1862 Amphitheatre VIC Aus, died ?
Martha born 1865 Amphitheatre VIC Aus, died 1929 Ararat VIC Aus.

Robert arrived in Australia in 1852 and Mary arrived in 1854 with John, George and Robert which leads me to believe that Mary, Charles and Thomas were deceased.

How do I find out the birth information for the children born in Scotland and also the death details of the above three children?

Any help is greatly appreciated!!! Thankyou very much.

Elise

[LesleyB]

Hi Elise
and welcome to Talking Scot

How do I find out the birth information for the children born in Scotland and also the death details of the above three children?

The IGI is a good place to start because it is free. Tends to have births & marriages only.
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/ ... _form=true
Then, if you wish to search for the original entires in the parish records and view them, the ScotlandsPeople site is the way to go:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Both the above records are mainly Church of Scotland records though, so if your family were members of another church e.g. Methodists, Baptists, Roman Catholic, Free Kirk etc, you may not find them there. Do you know what church they belonged to?

Where have you found the information about "Edinburgh or Glasgow" births? Is this based on a document you have seen?

Where did you find the marriage date? The only one on IGI is an extract but it gives the date as "About 11 JUN 1844 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland" which seems an odd way of putting things! You should be able to view the original on the Scotlands People site to verify, if you have not done so already.

As they are still in Scotland in 1851, the census for that year should show the parents with a few of the children and given ages and places of birth which would help you narrow it down a bit. The census is availbable on Ancestry (transcription only) Freecen (not complete, but 99.2 for Lanarkshire, and 100% for Midlothian so a good chance there!) and Scotlands People (transcribed index and original images)

This looks a likely family on freecen in 1851 living at 13 Mound Place, Tollbooth, Edinburgh. You can see the full details at http://www.freecen.org.uk

• NEIL Robt Head M M 26 Foreman Book Binder Lanarkshire - Glasgow
  NEIL Mary Wife M F 28 Ireland - -
  NEIL John Son - M 5 At School Lanarkshire - Glasgow
  NEIL George H C Son - M 4 At School Lanarkshire - Glasgow
  NEIL Mary Dau - F 2 Midlothian - Edinburgh
  NEIL Robert Son - M 11m Midlothian - Edinburgh
  There is alslo a Betsey CAVENOR aged 16 in the same household, listed as a servant, born Ireland.

Best wishes
Lesley

[elise]

Hi Lesley,

Thanks for that information it's very helpful!

I did view the original marriage date via Scotlands People and it states that Robert and Mary were living is Glasgow and were married on the 11th June 1844 by a Methodist Minister.

As for the births of the children I have only been told by other family members that they believe the children were born either Glasgow or Edinburgh.

Thankyou for that census record, that's fantastic. Do you know why they would have a servant; does that mean they were pretty well off?

Thanks
Elise

[LesleyB]

Hi Elise

So, if they were married by a Methodist minister, that may go some way to explain why you have had problems locating the births. I reckon they will have been christened in the Methodist church, so likley no sign on IGI and ScotlandsPeople. That explains why a parent search on IGI turned up nothing at all.

There may be methodist registers, but these would not be available online. You would need to locate the likely record at the National Archives of Scotland site (catalogue is here http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/ )and then go and see the relevant record there, if indeed there is one; there may not be... If the methodist minister is mentioned by name in the OPR, that might help you track down the exact church.

With regard to the servant - I would say that the family was not poor, but many people back then had a servant (or two) as labour was very cheap.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Grendlsmother]

Lesley

It was very common for people to take in lodgers in those days, so she need not necessarily have been their servant. Sometimes I find people with only a couple of rooms taking in lodgers - times were hard and the extra cash useful.

GM

[LesleyB]

Hi Grendlsmother

Yes, I know taking in lodgers was common practice, but if a lodger, I thought she would have been enumerated as such - the fact that she is listed in the census return as a servant, (and her age) makes it seem likely that that is what she was in the household. I've a few cases in my own family where the "servant" was actually a young female relative, who had left home, was working but was clearly still living with extended family, though any relationship was not indicated at all on the census return! I've also seen "lodgers" and "visitors" listed in a return who I know to be relatives of the household...again, with no clues on the census page, so I guess we need to keep an open mind on these things!

Best wishes
Lesley

[elise]

Lesley,

Thanks for the information. The marriage entry shows that they were married by a Mr. Henry Hasiley Methodist Minister in Glasgow.

Elise

[elise]

Hi,

I have another query regarding Robert Neil.
According to a family diary written by his son, Robert was a bookseller and bound a book in 1851 and sent it to the London Exhibition of that year. He won a bronze medal and 10 pounds with a chart signed by Prince Albert.
How do I find whether this is correct?

Thanks
Elise

[LesleyB]

Hi Elise

That sounds like the sort of event that may have been reported in local newspapers. There are some copies of the Glasgow Herald on Google books, but I can't recall the date range covered.

I'm sure there will be other ways to follow up your lead - maybe try a search of the cataligue at the National Archives?

Best wishes
Lesley

[carlineric]

According to D J Steel in his (old but still useful )Sources for Scottish Genealogy and Family History the registers were still in the hands of circuit superintendents or ministers in 1970 (could have changed).