Roderick Henry W Ross - This is a teaser…

[Beckenham1]

I’ve hit a brick wall on finding Roderick Henry W Ross, born 1891 in Canterbury, Kent, England

His father was Roderick Ross the Chief Constable of Edinburgh City Police from 1900 to 1935. He originally came from Helmsdale.

Roderick Henry W Ross was the eldest son, he died in the Great War early doors 1915-16. He is thought to have been an officer Royal Scots? He was 23 years old when the war broke out; he was to be a lawyer.

I have him tracked up to 1901. Ater that it's anecdotal. He move back to Scotland at the age of 9 and all the family stayed all their lives except for the war in France.

I can’t find him on the CWGC site, or the Scottish National War memorial honour roll, or even the Scotland’s people site.

Any ideas; I should would be grateful?

Best regards, Jim

[Tracey]

Have you seen and discounted this on CWGC ? Just wondering if he could have been know as Harry or Henry ? On Scotlandspeople there are five results if you search for a marriage of Roderick Ross wife Helen and two for a Henry and Helen. There are also only 18 marriages between 1907 - 1920

Name:ROSS
Initials:H
Nationality:United Kingdom
Rank:Private
Regiment/Service:Royal Scots
Unit Text: 17th Bn.
Age: 27
Date of Death:30/09/1918
Service No:271271
Additional information:Husband of Helen F. Ross, of The Mount, Cockburnspath, Berwickshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:II. F. 26
Cemetery: ZANTVOORDE BRITISH CEMETERY.

Have you also checked under Rod ? there are deaths in the time frame. My dads name is the same and is spelt with an h after the r .

[Beckenham1]

Nice try… thanks for the ideas.

I’m afraid that I've come up blank.

I have discovered that the English birth index may be wrong I suspect his correct name is Roderick Henry M Ross. His grandfather was Henry Mills.

I wonder if I could find him in Index juridicus: the Scottish law list from 1852 onwards

Is there a way of searching it without going to the National Archives of Scotland (NAS)?

I also tried various monument inscriptions and old school War Memorial records but coverage is very patchy…

Unless he ran away from home he’s likely to be in the officer corps…

Any other ideas?

All the best, Jim

[Currie]

Hello Jim,

When father and son have the same name the son may get called something else and may use that name for life. Just about everywhere you look there are references to the father and his career. You would think it likely that the death of a son of the Chief Constable would have been specially reported in the Scotsman.

Quite often deaths of children in war are mentioned in obituaries, possibly also, I suppose, in a write-up a public figure may get on retirement. The Glasgow Herald obit doesn’t say a lot. Maybe the Scotsman had more to say. Sometimes publications of professional organisations have very detailed obits, was there a Police magazine? http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fR ... able&hl=en

For the son, you would expect a promotion to officer rank to appear in the London Gazette. I couldn’t see anything promising there, even when searching just for Roderick Henry as a phrase, in 1910-1920. On Google Advanced search you can search within the CWGC site for Roderick Ross as a phrase but no luck. That was just in case the father was mentioned in one of the descriptions.

If he was age 23 and about to become a lawyer would that mean he had already undergone university education? If so, where would that likely to have been and would they know anything? Would that necessarily be the same as the list you referred to, or is it only a list of those practising? See http://books.google.com.au/books?id=maI ... cQ6AEwBDgU

In the process I stumbled across some interesting bits to do with the father:

A bit of gossip, apparently he looked like Edward VII. http://books.google.com/books?id=RAt8AA ... cQ6AEwBDgo

Interesting stuff and pictures about the Edinburgh Police Band.
http://www.scots-sa.org.au/PACS/EXTRAS/ ... Y%2010.pdf

There’s a photo of the Chief Constable in the Chicago Tribune, taken 1933 during one of his visits to the USA. He’s talking to someone from the FBI.

Probably not much help, but there’s always the 1911 census, not too far away, that is sure to provide some clues.

Alan

[momat]

Hello Jim,

This comes up on Service Returns on Scotland's People
May be just co- incidence with the name.

The service number is partially blurred on S P
S/240?? (a search on NA shows the last two as 50

Pvte 7th Batt Seaforth Highlanders
)Ross Roderick born Scotland aged 19 .(I know you say he was born England!!)
Died in France 23.4.1918 of Wounds. .
Maybe the age was entered wrongly but it is worth delving into .
There are 21 entries on NA for the name Roderick Ross 1914-1920
May also be data on this site http://www.1914-1918.net/
Worth a look.

[Beckenham1]

Thanks for all your help. Many of the hints were very helpful and informative. I didn't know about service records on SP for example or searching CWGC using google. Anyway off I went to the library and this is what I found...

The Manchester Guardian; Jun 20, 1905

A BOY’S FALL IN THE HIGHLANDS

The chief Constable of Edinburgh, Mr Ross, who was formerly at Bradford, has lost his fourteen-year old son Roderick by a very sad accident. The boy was missed from a school at Kilchrenan, Argyllshire, where he was a boarder, on the 7th inst. Active search was made all over the district, two bloodhounds being employed, and yesterday the body of the boy was found in the pass of Brander. He had evidently fallen from the top of a high cliff, the body being hidden among the boulders.

I know of only 5 sons, now all accounted for. Incidentally The father Roderick Ross and two of his sons were Chief Constables at the same time. Donald Angus Ross (born 1896) was Chief Constable of Argyllshire from 1927 to 1961 and Douglas George Ross (born 1897) was Chief Constable of Sutherland from 1933 to 1962.

For the family story about a son, lost to the war to be true; I'll have to go back and find the missing man...
All the best and thanks again for all your help.
Jim

[momat]

Hi Jim,
Have you seen the death Cert for 14 year old Roderick on Scotland"s People.
If not I can give it to you.

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Jim

The 1901 census in Edinburgh shows 4 sons, - Roderick, Robert, Donald, and Douglas.

Assuming that Robert is one of the other two sons that you have traced that gives a problem re a WWI death.

Any son born after the 1901 census is very unlikely to have perished in WWI. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

The 1891 census for Canterbury, with Sergeant [of Police] Roderick and wife Elizabeth (who later became 'Estella' !) shows no kids, so Roderick was presumably the eldest son. This would fit with their probable ages at marriage.

Given that there's nearly always at least a grain of truth in family stories, I wonder if it was a brother of Roderick the Chief Constable and the Boer War that was involved ?


Sergeant to Chief Constable in less than 10 years! Not bad going !


mb


Later addition

Roderick the Chief Constable's brothers were Angus and Donald.

His mother was Mary POLSON, and it looks like her father, Angus POLSON has a very interesting army record, - see TNA - pick one from two !

WO 97/200/114 ANGUS POLSON Born KILDONAN, Sutherland Served in 2nd Foot Guards Discharged aged 43 1826-1849

WO 97/1020/15 ANGUS POLSON Born KILDONAN, Sutherland Served in 93rd Foot Regiment Discharged aged 37 1799-1815

And could the one have been the father of the other ?!


And an Angus POLSON, Army Pensioner, married Catherine MUNRO in Loth in 1835, with Mary POLSON, who later married William ROSS, father of the Chief Constable, born there in 1835.


On his father Roderick's death register entry in 1943, the informant, one R P ROSS, of Portobello, reported the occupation of Roderick's father, William, as Harbour Master, - a wee bit of 'death certificate promotion', I suspect, as William was a cooper.

mb

[garibaldired]

According to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderick_Ross

There were 6 children of the marriage; of course it doesn't say they were all sons!

Best wishes,
Meg

[Montrose Budie]

According to the 1901 Edinburgh census, there were two daughters, Elizabeth, aged 6, and Hettie, aged 3. both England ..........

mb