Gay family from Bonhill

[daisyd]

While searching through the internet (for the zillionth time) trying to find anything about a couple of branches of my family, I came upon the thread indicated below, dated 2005. This is the first time I've seen this site, and of course I had to register immediately!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6273&start=15

After reading this thread, there seems to be quite a lot of information that I would really appreciate your sharing with me, as I've been bashing my head against a number of brick walls with 'this lot' for quite some time.

Walter Gay (b. December 19, 1805, in Bonhill, Dunbarton, Scotland) and his wife Flora Glen (b. 1805 in Alexandria City, Dunbarton, Scotland, d. March 1, 1843 in Bridgtown, Glasgow, Scotland) are my great-great grandparents.

Their son James Gay (1837-1881) married Emma Savage (1840-1918), and were my great-grandparents. They both died in Victoria, Australia. And their descendants mainly are still in Australia, myself included.

The Walter Gay/Guy (183-1873) who married Isabel Ross was my great-great uncle (though I never new him - he emigrated from Scotland to Massachusets, USA). And his name definitely was GAY! (Some of the Australian Gays have in recent years changed their name to GRAY. How sad!)

Except for more recent generations, I have very little more knowledge. I would dearly like to trace the family back a little further.

So far, what I have is this, and I have been able to confirm none of it:

Parents of Walter Gay (b. 1805) were: Walter Gay (b. about 1778) and Catherine McFarlane (b. about 1777 in Bonhill, Dunbarton, Scotland).

Walter Gay's father was possibly Walter Gay (b. 1760), and his parents may have been Walter Gay and Susan McLintock. (These are very tentative possibilities).

As far as we know, Flora Glen's parents were Walter Glen and Jean Allan/Allen.

We think it likely that the name is Glen, not Glenn, because Flora's granddaughter was my great-aunt Flora Glen Dempster nee Gay, who lived almost to her 101st birthday.

I am unfamiliar with discussion forums, so I don't know the best place to post the details herein - I hope this is the right place.

If you are able to provide any further information about my forebears, I would be very grateful to you. Thanks!

[Alan SHARP]

Greetings from New Zealand.

Welcome to TalkingScot. Unfortunately the View topic link is not activated so I was not able to look up the forum thread you were referring to. Contacting someone who posted a thread topic five years previously, is not uncommon.

If you haven’t already, use the search box option in the first banner at the top of the page, and you will get eight hits on this site for discussion re Walter Gay. The oldest that I found was in 2006.

Although newly signed on, you can click on the PM (key hole) icon at the right of the forum post of interest (under the posters details) and it will take you to where you can leave a private message for the person who wrote the post. The message will sit in your out box until opened by the recipient, but as long as the poster's registered email address is still current, they will be sent an email telling them there has been activity on their post, and or, there is a PM waiting for them. (Then the PM moves to your SENT box) Likewise if you tick the notification box at the bottom of your post, you will be notified by email, of any activity on the thread.

In a few hours time, others with more data at their finger tips, will reply to you from the other side of the world. So that they are not duplicating work you have already done, quoting which census and Old Parish records you have already seen helps them to focus their assistance, on sources that you are unaware of.

They are a great crew. I must to bed. All the best.

Alan SHARP.

[AndrewP]

Unfortunately the View topic link is not activated so I was not able to look up the forum thread you were referring to.

The link is now repaired and working.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Muriel]

I'm on the case!

Muriel

[Muriel]

Hello Daisy

As you will have realised, my main interest is in the Ross family. However, I do have some information about the Gay connection & here is what I've got

Walter Gay & Catherine McFarlane married on 1 Feb 1798. The banns were called in Bonhill parish (says Walter came from Balloch) & in Drymen, where Catherine is shown as being from Wood of Ganlfarran - obviously that's not what the word really is but I've not looked at a map to see if I can identify the place. The date of marriage means they were probably born in the 1770s but there is no sign of them in the 1841 census. It would be tempting to assume that Walter is the son of Walter & Susan McLintock because their marriage is on the OPR but there are lots of Gays in the area &, unless someone turns up some documentary evidence it's probably better to accept that Walter's antecedents may never be known - same with Catherine as McFarlane is also a common name in the area. Walter & Catherine had the following children (from the OPR):

Christian b. 1 Mar 1801, Janet 16 Apr 1803, Walter 19 Dec 1805, Peter 13 Nov 1809, Jean 9 Nov 1812 & John 16 Oct 1814. There may also have been an Alexander born about 1817 as there are a Janet, Christina & Alexander, siblings, living together in Glasgow in the 1851 census all shown as born in Bonhill.

The only one of these I've followed through is Walter who, as you know, married Flora Glen (one n) on 23 Sep 1832. Their children were:
Walter 10 Sep 1832, John 6 Nov 1833, James 10 Jun 1837 & Alexander 31 Jan 1831. The family are in the 1841 census in Bonhill but Flora must have died by 1844 because Walter married Jean Stewart on 16 May 1844 in Barony Parish, Glasgow. Walter & Jean had 2 children - Bryce Stewart 3 Oct 1845 & Jean 31 Mar 1851, both in Glasgow. Walter died on 10 Jan 1885 in Bonhill. He left a will when can be viewed (on payment) at Scotland's People (see links at the top of the page, if you don't already know about SP).

Walter, your great-uncle, didn't actually go to Massachusetts. He died on 25 Oct 1873 in Bonhill & it was his widow Isabella & their only surviving daughter, Flora Glen (b. 8 Apr 1862) who emigrated to Springfield, Mass in 1874 to join Isabella's parents. Their son, another Walter, b. 11 Dec 1855 remained in the UK & died in 1939 in London. He married & had 3 daughters, Alice Emma Isabella b. 1885, Gladys Flora Glen b. 1887 & Lillian May b. 1889. Isabella re-married in the US to Levi Danforth but had no more children. Flora also married, one Fred Irving Bemis, & had a daughter Anna Isabella Bemis who was born in 1895. I don't know what happened to her but I've been able to trace Fred & Flora through to the 1930 census. The last sighting I have of Isabella is on the passenger list entry for her sister Agnes May. Agnes also emigrated to Springfield in the 1880s after she was widowed. She returned to Scotland for several visits (there is no sign that Isabella ever did) & on her return to the US in 1913 she is going to her sister Mrs Danforth in Springfield.

I think that's about it but if you want to ask any questions, feel free.

Muriel

[SarahND]

Hi Muriel and Daisy,

Flora also married, one Fred Irving Bemis, & had a daughter Anna Isabella Bemis who was born in 1895. I don't know what happened to her but I've been able to trace Fred & Flora through to the 1930 census.

Looks like Anna Isabella Bemis (born 25 February 1895 in Springfield) married Preston T. Miller. They are living with his mother in Westfield, Hampden county, Massachusetts in 1920.
By 1930 they are back in Springfield with two sons, Preston age 9 and Chapin age 7.

All the best,
Sarah

[Muriel]

Thanks Sarah, that's interesting. It's a pity that Walter's descendents don't seem very interested in their gg granny & g aunt who emigrated. So many people seem more interested in the paternal line, which is a pity because the maternal is equally important. Of course my problem is that I find it too easy to go off at tangents - why else would I have looked at Walter & Catherine McFarlane's marriage entry

Muriel

[daisyd]

Thank you! This has clarified quite a lot for me.

Muriel, like you I have discovered that following through the distaff side has reaped many rewards! Which leads me to this question:

Does anybody know anything more about Flora Glen (1805-1843) and her parents, probably Walter Glen and Jean Allen/Allan?

Also (harking back to the original thread of 2005)

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6273&start=15

(in particular this post from LeslieB: <<The furthest back I have is John Guy/Gay (I think a master Cooper) & Jean Peacock who married I think around 1781 - they had 7 children I know of : Isbel, Susannah, Andrew, John, Alexander, Sarah Bain & Jane between 1785 - 1801. Both Alexander & Sarah named a child as Walter (of the others I only know what happened to Susannah & she had 4 boys, none of whom was Walter...) but it makes me think there is a tradition of Walters in the family. A look on IGI reveals Walters turning in in Luss, Cardross & Bonhill - again, I suspect some kind of connection there - maybe my John b. abt 1758 had a brother Walter? Who knows...? >>

can somebody help me sort out where Jean Peacock enters into MY picture? I am having SO much trouble sorting out all these people!

[LesleyB]

Hi Daisy

My suspicion is that John Guy, b abt 1758 d. 1827 who married Jean Peacock was the brother of Walter Guy (b.1760), both being sons of Walter Guy and Susan McLintoch, but I've no concrete proof on that one, other than IGI gives 2 sons of those names to that couple, it does not tell us WHICH Walter or WHICH John these later turned out to be, so it is just a hunch just now that they are the likely family.

The surname for my line dithers regularly between Gay and Guy; the same will likely be true of Glen and Glenn....there are no absolutes when it comes to surnames and OPRs!

Best wishes
Lesley

[daisyd]

Thanks LesleyB. That clarifies things a bit. However, if Walter GAY's brother was John who married Jean Peacock, and the name GAY continued into the current generation, then surely John's name would have been GAY as well?

This must surely be the case with John, the son of Walter Gay (1805-1885) and Flora Glen (1805-1843), who married Isabel(la) Ross. John and Isabel(la) had a daughter, Flora Glen, whose surname we recognise as GAY. WE, being of course, the Australian mob, of whom there are many thousands!

Still, I concede that either of the Johns may have called himself GUY for some reason, or perhaps Isabel(la) was unlucky with the shipping clerk who recorded her name. It would be interesting to learn what she called herself after her arrival in America. Muriel?

Personally, I'm sticking with GAY, because I have a vast number of relatives who call themselves that. In fact, the name GAY has been frequently given to girls in the family as a second name - a traditional (and, IMO, excellent) Scottish way of preserving the surnames of antecedents.

So - was her name Isabel or Isabella?

Also, has anybody been able to connect any of these people to the original Gays who came from France?