Nicol Family Mystery Glasgow

[ElleBell]

Hi all,

I'm trying to find out anything about the following family:

William Nicol married Elizabeth Kerr in Glasgow on 19th Jul 1824 and I know they had at least the following children:

Thomas Nicol born 4th Jul 1825 in Glasgow (christened 17th Jul in The Gorbals as per the IGI)
William Nicol born c.1829 in Glasgow (speculative as taken from census and never found birth record)
Janet (Stevenson) Nicol born c.1831-33 in Glasgow (not found birth record either but confirmed via marriage and death records)
James Nicol born c.1832 in Glasgow (not found birth record either but confirmed via marriage and death records again)

My best guess for parents of Elizabeth is James Kerr and Janet Stevenson but I've never been able to fully confirm that. I also think it is likely that William's father was named Thomas.

I have not been able to find out anything more about Elizabeth and William and have a hunch that they died pre the 1841 census as I believe I have found Thomas, William and James with probably their grandmother Janet Stevenson on the 1841 census in the Gorbals, Glasgow which tallies with Thomas' christening record. I've not been able to find Janet though and would love to find her on the 1841 and 1851 census returns. She married in 1853 in The Gorbals and died in 1873 so she should be there.

I've not been able to track Thomas and William any further than 1841 so I don't know if they died or emigrated or I've just not been able to find them.
I have found a marriage for James in 1855 (to Mary Neilson) in Glasgow - they ended up in Birkenhead in England where James died in 1887 - but I've not found him on the 1851 census either.

Any help with any of these roadblocks would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[momat]

Hi,
Scotlands People have this birth record.
04/07/1825 NICOL JAMES WILLIAM NICOL/ELIZABETH KERR FR3961 M GLASGOW GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK
May be worth checking it.

[paddyscar]

Hi Ellebelle, and a Warm Welcome to TalkingScot!

Have you had a look through the IGI (International Genealogical Index) http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... _form=true

There are many listings extracted from Church records which may begin to lead you in a more defined direction.

WILLIAM NICOL
Spouse: ELIZABETH KERR Family
Marriage: 19 JUL 1824 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland (the difference in the date, from the one momat found, may be the reading of the banns, and/or the other a marriage date)

Children:
THOMAS NICOLL - Gender: Male Birth: 04 JUL 1825 ; Christening: 17 JUL 1825 Gorbals, Lanark, Scotland
SUSANAH NICOL - Gender: Female Christening: 11 AUG 1839 Hutchesontown Relief Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Possible parents
1. WILLIAM NICOL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 18 JUN 1803 Old Machar, Aberdeen, Scotland
2. WILLIAM REID NICOL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 25 JUN 1804
3. WILLIAM REID NICOL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 27 JUN 1804 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
4. WILLIAM NICOLL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 08 OCT 1805 Tealing, Angus, Scotland

There are also records there, showing Elizabeth (Elspeth) was born to James Ker and Janet Stevenson on 05 Feb. 1799, Rutherglen, Lanark and baptised 10 Feb. 1799. Seems James and Janet had quite a number of children. You can retrieve the list by entering their names as parents, leaving the children's details blank and selecting British Isles, Scotland as the locations

Hope this helps,
Frances

[ElleBell]

Hi,
Scotlands People have this birth record.
04/07/1825 NICOL JAMES WILLIAM NICOL/ELIZABETH KERR FR3961 M GLASGOW GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK
May be worth checking it.

Hi Momat,

Thanks for this but it's actually an indexing error - I have the original and it is for Thomas. I've informed Scotland's People about it and they're in the process of fixing it.

Thanks anyway,

Elle

[ElleBell]

Hi Ellebelle, and a Warm Welcome to TalkingScot!

Have you had a look through the IGI (International Genealogical Index) http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... _form=true
There are many listings extracted from Church records which may begin to lead you in a more defined direction.

Children:
THOMAS NICOLL - Gender: Male Birth: 04 JUL 1825 ; Christening: 17 JUL 1825 Gorbals, Lanark, Scotland
SUSANAH NICOL - Gender: Female Christening: 11 AUG 1839 Hutchesontown Relief Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

There are also records there, showing Elizabeth (Elspeth) was born to James Ker and Janet Stevenson on 05 Feb. 1799, Rutherglen, Lanark and baptised 10 Feb. 1799. Seems James and Janet had quite a number of children. You can retrieve the list by entering their names as parents, leaving the children's details blank and selecting British Isles, Scotland as the locations

Hope this helps,
Frances

Hi Frances,
First off thanks so much for the warm welcome

Yes I have scoured the IGI and SP and found all of the above. I've never added James and Janet's children to my tree just in case I'm wrong about them being the correct couple but I do think Elspeth is probably my Elizabeth.

I have the original marriage entry for William and Elizabeth and the date is the 19th Jul 1824.

I also have the original entry for Thomas' birth and christening - there are two entries but they are both for him. It's always frustrating when only one child was registered and you know there are several more! The one that intrigues me is the Susanah Nicol birth 1839 at Hutchesontown Relief Church - I have seen this on the IGI and it does state it is an "extract" and not just a submitted entry but I cannot for the life of me find it on SP. I'm sure I've also looked when I've been in Edinburgh and not found it. I've also looked for Susanah on the census and found nothing either so that's another mystery.

I'm just hoping perhaps someone will be able to spot something on the census that I've missed.

Thanks a lot for the help.

Regards

Elle

[speleobat2]

Have you seen this one:

1851 Scotland Census 1851 Scotland Census
Name: Janet Nichol
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relationship: Daughter
Mother's name: Elizabeth Nichol
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark
Parish Number: 622
Civil parish: Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 168 Holm Street
Occupation: Winder Warehouse
ED: 6B
Page: 2 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 7
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1851_143
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Nichol 46
Janet Nichol 19


I'm not very familiar with the area, but the ages certainly fit!

Carol

[LesleyB]

Hi Elle
..and welcome to Talking Scot

The one that intrigues me is the Susanah Nicol birth 1839 at Hutchesontown Relief Church - I have seen this on the IGI and it does state it is an "extract" and not just a submitted entry but I cannot for the life of me find it on SP.

SP records are those of the Established Church, the Church of Scotland. Relief Church records will not be listed there. If there is mention on IGI as an extract, you would need to find out where the originals for Hutchesontown Relief Church are kept - I'd think they would most likely be stored in the National Archives of Scotland as they have a large collection of Church Records.

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

And it is indeed mentioned in the NAS catalogue:
CH3/398 Glasgow, Hutchesontown Relief Church (later United Presbyterian and United Free) 1820-1872 ,
but is held at Glasgow City Archives

Repository Glasgow City Archives
Reference CH3/398
Title Glasgow, Hutchesontown Relief Church (later United Presbyterian and United Free)
Dates 1820-1872
Access status Not held
Access conditions This record group is not in the NAS. It is held in Glasgow City Archives

Admin history Hutchesontown United Free Church, Glasgow, originated with a petition to Glasgow Relief Presbytery in 1799. The church, which was dedicated in the same year, was in Gorbals, at the intersection of Hospital Street and Ballater Street. The congregation was known successively as Hutchesontown Relief, United Presbyterian and United Free Church. It terminated in 1924 on uniting with Caledonia Road UF as Hutchesontown and Caledonia Road UF, itself dissolved in 1963.

[ElleBell]

Hi LesleyB,

Thanks for the welcome =D>

Thank you very much for the information on the Hutchesontown Relief Church. I'm having a real doh moment as I know all about the fact SP is just Established Church since I've had to go rooting for non-established birth records before but on this occasion it didn't occur to me I'll have a look for it the next time I'm in The Mitchell.

Anyway it certainly does look like Susanah may well be another sibling especially with there being a Gorbals connection. I have a feeling she must have died as a baby though as there is no sign of her on the 1841 census.

Thanks again for the help,

Elle

[ElleBell]

Have you seen this one:

1851 Scotland Census 1851 Scotland Census
Name: Janet Nichol
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relationship: Daughter
Mother's name: Elizabeth Nichol
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanark
Parish Number: 622
Civil parish: Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 168 Holm Street
Occupation: Winder Warehouse
ED: 6B
Page: 2 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 7
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1851_143
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Nichol 46
Janet Nichol 19

I'm not very familiar with the area, but the ages certainly fit!

Carol

Hi Carol,

Thanks for that- I have seen that one before but I'm not sure if it's her or not. My thinking was that Elizabeth had died prior to 1841 and that was why all Janet's brothers were living with their grandmother in 1841. That doesn't explain why she's not there though so it's certainly possible she was still alive in 1851. If so she must have died between 1851 and 1855 when she is listed as deceased on her son James' marriage certificate. I've always thought that this 1851 Elizabeth and Janet may be the same as from this 1841 Census Return which I've also considered:

1841 Scotland Census
Name: Elizabeth Nicol
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland
Civil parish: Glasgow St George
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Old Busin
Occupation: Cotton Yar Winder
Parish Number: 644/1
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Nicol 60 Grocer
Elizabeth Nicol 15
Janet Nicol 8
Robert Blan 35
Andrew Lang 20
George Sterling 15

As you can see the Janet is the correct age for both my Janet and the one on the 1851 census and Elizabeth is a winder while the Elizabeth on the 1851 census is listed as a "retired winder" so I think perhaps Elizabeth's age has been mistranscribed on either the 1841 or 1851 or both. I've never seen the originals though so I don't know for sure.

They are certainly possibles but if it is them then it raises more questions about why Thomas, William and James aren't with them and where they were in 1851 too. Of course Thomas and William could have died or emigrated between 1841 and 1851 but James certainly has to be on the census somewhere as he married in 1855 and died in 1887.

Thanks for all the help,

Elle