My husband's Scottish family, for our children

[melva'sgirl]

Hello!
The families I'm interested in are:
Robert Boyd Williamson, 1898 Glasgow-1975 Ohio,USA
married Isabelle Grant 1 Sept 1922, Glasgow
John Stevenson Williamson, 31 Jan 1901 Glasgow -1964 Ohio
married (1) Tryphena Clarke McConkey b.5 jun 1901, Glasgow -9 Apr 1927 Ohio
(she was the daughter of Samuel McConkey b.1864 Ireland, d.1922 Glasgow and Hannah "Jane" McCutcheon b.1864 Ireland, d.1941 Glasgow)
(2) Verna Hodermarsky of Cleveland, Ohio
David Williamson b. 16 Dec 1908 Glasgow - 1975 Ohio
married Estella Stancak of Ohio
Jessie/Janet Williamson b. 18May 1904, Durham England -d. Ohio
married Frederick Johnson in Ohio
James Williamson b.Abt 1906 Glasgow-d.1919 Glasgow

These were the children of Robert Boyd Williamson Sr. ca.1870-1910, Barony Parish, Maryhill. Lanarkshire, Scotland and his wife Mary Stevenson. Mary married a Mc or Mac Pherson later.
Recently I posted a message with this information on another message board and a very kind lady from Glasgow answered me with some marriage and death records that helped considerbly and I'm very grateful to her.
The records state Robert Boyd Williamson 1870* to be the son of Robert Williamson and Jessie Boyd. Robert Williamson the son of Benjamin Williamson and Ann Maxton. Jessie Boyd the daughter of Robert Boyd ca. 1829 and Annie Allan.
Mary Stevenson the daughter of John Stevenson and Jessie McColl
Samuel McConkey the son of Samuel McConkey (Ireland to Glasgow) and Helen Gillan
Hannah "Jane" McCutcheon the daughter of William McCutcheon and Unknown
I've researched as best I could from here but though there are several Family Trees posted on Ancestry the dates often don't add up and create more confusion. Some of them have "our" Robert Boyd being Robert Kilgour Boyd. This would be nice, but I'm not at all certain it's right. It seems from everything I've been able to check that our Robert was born 1929 and not 1930, plus other discrepancies in posted information. Any clarity would be appreciated. Thank-You Sandy

*Date changed by SarahND

[melva'sgirl]

Sorry, I didn't catch it first time through, Robert Boyd Williamson was born 1870, not in 1864 as said I in the first message. It was Samuel McConkey born 1864 instead. It's late, my eyes are bleary. I apologize for the error. Sandy

[trish1]

Hello Sandy & welcome to Talking Scot



I haven't looked at your Boyds in detail yet - but just to mention Jessie, the daughter of Robert Kilgour Boyd didn't marry and had no children so he is unlikely to be the Robert Boyd you are searching for.
Robert Kilgour Boyd (1830-1911) was the son of Peter Boyd and Barbara Kilgour. He married Margaret Walker Allan in 1856 and daughter Jessie was born in 1865. Before 1871 the family moved to Ware in Hertfordshire & Jessie remained there until her parents died. She then moved to London, near her brother John. Members of my family visited Jessie during WWI and corresponded with her until her death in 1951.

Jessie Boyd who had a child in 1864 could not be a child of someone born in 1829 or 1830, so that would also indicate perhaps a generation missing in some of the online trees. I agree with you, the dates don't add up.

The IGI/family search have many birth and marriage indexes online, which should help with your research. You can also use ScotlandsPeople which is a pay to view site, but I always try the IGI first. With an interest in the Boyds, I am finding it difficult to find your people so I will go away and look at it more closely.

[SarahND]

Hello Sandy and welcome to
Is there any particular information you are looking for? I assume you have the Birth, Marriage and Death certificates as well as census records for these people? If not, and you would like help tracking them down, just say the word.

You are right not to believe blindly what anyone else posts on their family tree. The only way is to get the primary documentation yourself! If you have Robert Boyd's death certificate it should clarify who your Robert's parents are, which will help you find his birth date. (I'm assuming you meant 1829, not 1929 in your last paragraph)

All the best,
Sarah

P.S. You can always edit your own posts by clicking on the edit button under the post.

[trish1]

Hi Sandy

I looked through the census, trying to put your family together. If you haven't got any records from ScotlandsPeople it could be worthwhile - e.g. my census transcript doesn't give marital status - do I have the right Ann & is she a widow in 1851? If I have the right family from 1841 - 1901 then it would appear Ann may have married to John Boyd & after his death married Robert. I'm not finding any of the children's baptisms on the IGI so it is difficult to prove. Jessie's marriage would name her parents - but if her father died before or shortly after her birth, she may think her stepfather was her father. I can't find a baptism for Jessie with mother Ann* at the right time.

Anyhow - this may be the census records

1901 Lanark Glasgow Govan ED87 P13
26 Govan hill street
Robert Williamson 30 head rivetter born Glasgow
Mary Williamson 27 wife born Glasgow
Robert do 2 born son Glasgow
John do 4 mo born son Glasgow


1881 Lanark Goven Church ED6 P12
Robert Williamson 32 head Boilermaker Plater Glasgow
Jessie Williamson 29 wife -- Glasgow
Robert Williamson 10 son scholar Glasgow
David Williamson 7 son scholar Glasgow
Jessie Williamson 2 dau -- Glasgow

1871 Lanark Govan ED19 P2
No 33 Oriental Ter
Robert Boyd 45 head bricklayer Cuthbert, lanark
Ann Boyd 35(?) wife Craigie Ayrshire
Jessie Boyd 19 dau Govan, Lanark
David Boyd 13 son Govan lanark
Robert Williamson 6mo gson Govan lanark
(Useful that Jessie was with her family in 1871 although the age of mother Ann conflicts with earlier census records. I have found that women are often shown with their maiden name on census records in Scotland)

From IGI
Robert Williamson born 21 Sep 1870 Tradestown Glawgow Lanark parents Robert Williamson & Jessie Boyd
Robert Williamson married Jessie Boyd 17 Dec 1869 Tradeston Glasgow Lanark

1861 Lanark Givan ED1 P1
Dum Road
Robert Boyd 34 head bricklayer Cathcart, lanark
Ann Boyd 44(?) wife bricklayer wife Kilmarnock Ayrshire
Robt Boyd 17 son bricklayer Glasgow
James Boyd 12 son scholar Glasgow
Jessie Boyd 9 dau scholar Glasgow
David Boyd 2 son -- Glasgow
John Boyd 23 nephew bricklayer Glasgow

1851 Lanark Barony ED41A P1
129 Renfield Street
Ann Boyd 34 head -- Ayrshire
John Boyd 13 son scholar Lanarkshire
Robert Boyd 8 son scholar Lanarkshire
William Boyd 6 son scholar Lanarkshire
James Boyd 3 son scholar Lanarkshire
Robert Boyd 25 brother in law bricklayer Lanarkshire

1841 Lanark Gorbals ED13 P22
Melville Street
John Boyd 25 Y
Ann Boyd 24 N (not born in county)
John Boyd 2 Y
Robert Boyd 3 mo Y
Robert Boyd 15 bricklayers apprentice Y
If this is the right family, the Robert Boyd 3mo here may have died in infancy

[melva'sgirl]

Sarah and Trish Hello
Thank-you both so much for answering me. Sarah, you're right. Another goof I missed. i did mean 1829 and not 1929. Thanks for telling me about the edit button. I didn't realize I could correct an error that way. Very useful, for me at least. Head and body are not always in synch.
To answer, no I don't have all the records in hand. Some I only have the information off the records. I do have the marriage record of Robert Williamson and Jessie Boyd, and that's where it gave the name of her parents as Robert boyd and Annie Allan. David Boyd was a witness. I had found a birth date for David b.22 June 1859 in Govan and also the birth of Robert Williamson's in 1870. I only had a few marriage and death records, but no birth records and only pieces of census records. You're right. It would definitely be worthwhile to obtain those records. Trish, how amazing that you found those census records! Thank-you so much! Yes I'm sure from everything I already know that this is our family. To be honest, I was hoping you would still be around because I had read some of your earlier posts and they are what convinced me that the Family Trees with Robert Kilgour Boyd as "our" Robert were wrong. And the census records explain why I was having such trouble getting things straight. I was almost sure Robert Boyd was always in the Lanarkshire area but I still couldn't place him. I never even considered that Ann Allan had married two Boyd brothers!
As far as the 1901 census,yes that is definitely our Robert Williamson. The children, Robert age 2 and John 4 mos. John was my husband's grandfather, he was a baker, he died in 1964, a few years before my husband John and I married. I never got to know him. But the rest I got to know and love well.
This answered a lot of my questions and I appreciate it very much. Happy Returns, Sandy

[melva'sgirl]

Trish,
Just found in the IGI : William Hamilton Boyd b. 4 Feb. 1845
Chr. 23 Mar 1845
Son of John Boyd and Ann Allan
Presumably this is the William age 6, on the 1851 census, but it says Hutchesontown Relief, Glasgow, Lanark. Does anyone know what Hutcheson Relief means? Thanks, Sandy

[trish1]

Hi Sandy

Others could explain the Church system in Scotland much better than myself - but it would seem the family didn't belong to the Church of Scotland - which may be why marriages/baptisms are more difficult to find. The LDS describe the film as
Hutchesontown United Presbyterian Relief Church (Glasgow,Lanark) - what meaning there is to the word "Relief" I do not know.

It is a little difficult to know from the Census records whether Robert or John was the father of Jessie. The 7 year gap between Jessie & David makes me think David may have been the only child of Robert - but if you can check the 1851 census as to whether Ann is listed as a widow - that may clarify things. From 1861, John knew he was not a child of Robert but the others have been listed as his children. Seems more likely that Robert & James belong to John, but Jessie - not so sure.

Trish

There are also records on the new LDS family search site which fit the census records
William Hamilton birth:24 Feb 1845 parents:John Boyd,​ Ann Allan
Robert birth:03 Feb 1843 parents:John Boyd,​ Ann Allan
Robert birth:24 Feb 1841 parents:John Boyd,​ Ann Allen
John birth:12 Mar 1839 parents:John Boyd,​ Ann Allen
All from the same church

I mustn't have looked very closely earlier - there are 3 civil registration records for children to Robert Boyd and Ann Allan & one is from 1855 - which was the year when much information was collected. It could be worth getting from SP - it should contain marriage details for the parents, age and place of birth of the parents, names of living siblings, numbers only for siblings who have died - as well as the usual date/place birth etc.

This would solve the issue of the "gap" between Jessie and David - Boyd and Ann must have died before 1861.
Boyd Boyd 13 May 1855 Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Lanark parents Robert Boyd, Ann Allan
Ann Boyd 21 May 1856 Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Lanark parents Robert Boyd, Ann Allan
David Boyd 22 Jun 1859 Govan Lanark parents Robert Boyd Ann Allan

[Russell]

Hi Trish
In Scotland around the 1780's/90's many congregations objected to the rule that allowed the local landowners/heritors to select and appoint the minister. They felt that the congregation should have the major say in the appointment. Many ministers also agreed with this so when their pleas were not listened to they broke away from the Established Church and formed a separate church. Many of these groupings were able to find their own minister and services would often be held in the open air initially. here in Kilbarchan they provided ministers who came out to the village from Paisley. They delivered their sermons from a wooden shelter which protected the minister and his Bible but not the congregation. Later everybody who could afford it contributed to a fund which was used to build a separate church with the congregation choosing the Minister and, eventually, providing him with a Manse and stipend.
I think the term 'Relief' applied to the relief from 'want of a minister'. A slightly different use of the word from current usage and understanding.
Many Relief churches affiliated with others to form the Free Church of Scotland. Later amalgamations took place with other, differently named churches so we come across United Presbyterian, United Free church,
Much earlier there had been other breakaways such as the Cameronians, Burgher church, Anti-burgher, Auld Lichts, but many of these dwindled and often re-joined one of the breakaway churches.
Many have now returned to the Established Church but there are still remnants. This partly explians why some Birth/baptismal and marriage records have not survived.
Its a fascinating aspect of social history but very complicated and convoluted.

Russell

[trish1]

Hi Russell

Many thanks for the explanation - I have learnt that there were "dissenters" in England and Scotland (not sure if that is the right term for Scotland) but little of the history. I appreciate that you can simplify it as I gather the convolutions were many and varied. I'm sure Sandy will appreciate your reply - way beyond my knowledge level. Down under we just had Presbyterians

Trish