marie donnelley or brooks

[cathy52]

i'm looking for any help to find any info on my gt grandfathers second wife. he was william kinsella.b 1858 in dublin he died30th march 1916 glasgow his first wife my gt gran was mary byrne she died 12th july 1907 his second wife was annie marie donnelly or brooks. annie was the informant for william living at 24 kelvin street glasgow, was wondering if william and annie had any children. thank you.

[Russell]

Hi Cathy

Have you looked at the 1911 census on scotlandspeople.gov.uk. Since you have precise details it would not be too hard to locate them. Annie would have to have been quite a bit younger than her husband to bear him children so it may just record the pair of them living at the address. If Annie had children young enough to be still at home they might appear on the entry but would probably carry her surname rather than his unless they were too young and were happy to accept the surname of their new Dad.

Russell

[paddyscar]

Hi Cathy52

Did you look for them in the 1911 census? There are two records for William Kinsella, with the second person beginning with a*. This might show you whether there were any children.

Also, there is a death record for Kinsella, Ann* ; female ; additional name DON*L*Y ; death 1950 - if there were children, perhaps you might get a name.

Both these records can be found on ScotlandsPeople which is a pay-as-you-go site. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

Frances

[Montrose Budie]

The 1950 death is the correct one.

After William's death Annie remarried, and the 1950 death registration informant is her then husband.

In the 1911 census William is shown as married but Annie isn't in the household, as such, although she is in the same institution, - they are both in Barlinnie Prison.

In Annie's entry, she is shown as having had 2 kids, one living.

There is a child born in 1910 but she died aged 3 months, which fits with the 1911 census info.

There are 6 other possible KINSELLA births in Glasgow up to William's death (plus 9 months !)

mb

[cathy52]

thankyou for the info you gave me,mb. could you advise me how i would go about finding out why william and annie were in barlinnie and for how long. bit of a shock. thanks again.

[Montrose Budie]

thankyou for the info you gave me,mb. could you advise me how i would go about finding out why william and annie were in barlinnie and for how long. bit of a shock. thanks again.

Hi Cathy

There were two levels of criminal court, - The High Court (of Justiciary) and the Sheriff Court.

Records for the former largely survive and are held at National Records of Scotland, National Archives of Scotland as was, see 195.153.34.9/onlinecatalogue/welcome.aspx for the searchable catalogue. The small number of Sheriff records that survive are also at NRS, but as far as I'm aware none survive for Glasgow.

Your best chance for info is a newspaper item, - a para or two. Have a Google for historical indexes of The Glasgow Herald on line. There's at least a couple.

mb

[Currie]

Hello Cathy,

I couldn’t see anything in the Scotsman. You would think it would be in the Glasgow Herald if both husband and wife were sent to the slammer.

I don’t know of a Glasgow Herald index online, but there appears to be a paper version somewhere. Glasgow Herald images are online, but the search facility is usually useless. In the hope it was a short sentence a browse through a couple of weeks of pre census newspapers may be worth a try. I think the 1911 census was the night of 2nd April. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=G ... de=2&hl=en

It may be best to first get the birth and death certificates for the child born 1910 to see if that leads anywhere. Were there any surviving children who would have needed care and would the Poor Law people have been involved, perhaps there’s info there.

Here’s the NAS page re Crime and Criminals. They have Barlinnie Prison records 1882-1960, whatever that means. Read the fine print carefully. You can get to the NAS Catalogue Search and search for Barlinnie etc via the link at the top of the page.
http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/crime.asp

Hope that helps,
Alan

[LesleyB]

Hi Cathy

Following on from Alan's mention of the Barlinnie prison records, some years ago I had some experience of searching these for a particular person in my tree - as far as I remember there was an index (in book form) which I think had to be ordered out in advance of one's visit, and that gave a ref. number for the prisoner which led to another volume which also had to be oredered out in advance, so it was a "two-order-two-visit " process...not something one could do on the spur of the moment!! And not 100 year closure on theses records as one might expect...

Having said that, the second volume did give an idea of why the prisoner was in Barlinnie, which was what I was hoping to find. I've given a summary of the info below - the records did not go into great detail, but gave enough to identify the person and why they were there and the length of sentence. Given that is is relatively recent, (and it is one of my lot!!) I've taken out any identifying features!!

1121/70/*** Barlinnie index 1940-41
Surname, Occupation, firstname, middle name, age, Height, born Glasgow, reg. no. ***
HH21/70/** - 1941 Registers for Barlinnie
Barlinnie records for the prisoner mention section 15(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1930 which indicate that it was a drink-driving offence. Admitted month/day/1941, sentence of 30 days (SC36/57/**)

Best wishes
Lesley

[cathy52]

thanks to everyone for your help. mb do you happen to know what date of the month or what for they were both in barlinnie prison for. regards cathie.

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Cathy

All that I know is that they were there on census night, - 2nd/3rd April.

mb