New Member researching Cumming and Graham

[veryoldgal]

Hi my name is Lesley and I am from Australia. I am researching my husband's history and am stuck. I am hoping that someone might be able to help me.
George Marquis Cumming says he was born in Dublin 15th December 1809 [source: grave stone and death certificate] and his Father's name was David and his Mother's name was Jean. [I haven't found a record of his birth yet].

He married Catherine Graham on 4th November 1828 Glasgow [source: familysearch]. Catherine had at least one child [my husband's ancestor], but she died some time before 1841 [I haven't found a record of her death yet].

George remarried on 16th August 1841 at St. Nicholas Liverpool to Margaret McHenry. Soon after they migrated with two children to Australia. I have gathered quite a lot of information on the family since they arrived in Australia.

I cannot seem to find any information about George Cumming and Cathering Graham.

Does anyone have access to the marriage records for Glasgow 1828 or could they do a look up for me. I would like to be able to confirm George's father's details and at least find out something about Catherine Graham.

I dont know if this will help or not but on his immigration records he states that his religion is presbyterian.

Thank you in advance.
Regards, Lesley

[nelmit]

Hello and welcome to Talking Scot Lesley,

I found this index at the IGI which conflicts a bit with your info but I feel it's got to be your George.

principal's name: George Cumming
estimated birth year: 1810
age in years: 31
native place of principal: Airth, Stirlingshire, Scotland
father's name: David Cumming
mother's name: Jane
spouse's name: Margaret Cumming
native place of spouse: Glasgow, , Scotland
spouse's father's name: Robert Mchenry
spouse's mother's name: Catherine
ship: Columbine
date of arrival: 04 Dec 1841
volume: 41
gs number: 416871
dgs number: 4117080
image number: 04116

You can view the original https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... cc=1542665

A look at census records shows a David Cumming at Airth Stirling who could be his father.

A search of the opr births at Scotlands People shows 5 children born to a George Cumming and Catherine Graham.

Regards,
Annette

[veryoldgal]

Hello Annette
Thank you so much for your quick reply.

This is what it says on George's marriage certificate:

16th August 1841 St. Nicholas Church, Liverpool
George Cumming full age Widower occupation Joiner of Chaucer Street, Fathers Name David Cumming occupation Solicitor married Margaret McHenry full age spinster of Scotland Road, Fathers Name Robert McHenry occupation Police Man.

I had no idea that George and his first wife, Catherine Graham had so many children. The other children must have died in infancy. When George and his second wife, Margaret travelled to Australia, they only had the two boys travelling with them: George and William. George Marquis Cumming's date of birth is 17 July 1839 Glasgow and William Kirk Cumming's birth is 9th July 1840 Liverpool.

The majority of the children born in Australia over the generations have "Graham" as their middle name [even the girls]. That is why I have become so interested in Catherine Graham. Unfortunately it is such a common name and I really dont know how to go about finding the correct one.

Can you advise me on where to search. I have had a great deal of difficulty searching through the familysearch website since they changed it. I suppose that eventually I will be able to work it out.

How do I go about trying to find a copy of the census record for David Cumming?

Thank you for the other details that you were able to provide for me. I am a member of the National Library in Canberra so have access to a lot of Australian Documents.

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Lesley

[nelmit]

This is the one I was talking about in 1861 -

Name: David Cumming
Age: 77
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1784
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Airth, Stirlingshire
Registration number: 469
Registration district: Airth
Civil parish: Airth
County: Stirlingshire
Address: Shore Road
Occupation: Pauper Formerly Lawyer's Clerk
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 45
Line: 17
Roll: CSSCT1861_63

His occupation in this census makes me think he's the right one but in 1841 & 1851 he is a Labourer. His wife is with him on both these census records (you can view a transcription at FREECEN) the originals can be viewed at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. You will also be able to see David's death entry at SP. There is a death registered in 1851 of a Jane Cumming at Airth.

Finding info on Catherine Graham will be very difficult I would think. I can't even find the marriage at the IGI!!

Regards,
Annette

[Currie]

Hello Lesley and Annette,

I’ve just been rounding up some shrapnel.

Here’s the basic passenger list for the Columbine, the microfilm containing the source for the index card info doesn’t appear to be online. http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/l ... =Columbine

The marriage in Liverpool was on the advertised sailing date of the ship Columbine, although it seems not to have left till a few days after.

Glasgow Herald, Thursday, October 10, 1895.
ROBERTSON.—At Muirkirk, on the 8th inst., aged 78, Jane Cumming, youngest daughter of the late David Cumming, Airth, and widow of Thomas Robertson, Glasgow.

SP has the above death. The IGI has a Jean Cumming – Thomas Robertson marriage: 09 Jul 1843 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland. Maybe there’s a connection.

Unless I’ve tangled my fingers the birth on SP for George Marquis Cumming appears to be 17 July 1835, Glasgow. I haven’t checked the parent’s names. The immigration card shows 28 July, 1838 as the birth date. Is it possible that some of the dates you’ve quoted were IGI submissions rather than from official records?

I can’t quite work this one out.
http://records.ancestry.com/George_Mang ... =176498366

Hope there’s something useful there,
Alan

[veryoldgal]

Hello Annette and Alan,

Thank you both for your replies. I am finding it very confusing myself. I just had another look at the photograph of the grave stone for George Cumming [the elder]. This is what it says George Marquiss Cumming born in Dublin 15th December 1808 [It is quite difficult to read the date] died at Mt. View near Eton Vale 9th June 1881. On one of the records that I found in Australia it was noted "Person verifying registration of baptism - none". So I can only gather that he didn't have a copy of his birth certificate/baptism record.

For George Cumming [the younger]: on the Bounty Indexes his date of birth is recorded as 28th July 1838.
On the IGI's at familysearch the date was recorded as 17th July 1839 [since they changed their website I haven't been able to find this record again].
On the SP website I found George Marquis Cumming as being born 17 July 1835 Glasgow.

So, the different dates add a bit of interest to the mix. Also I have seen the middle name spelt Marques/Marquis/Marquiss/Manquise and Markiss on various documents and newspaper articles in Australia.

I have also seen the transcripts for the 1841 and 1861 Census - thought that I had found the correct David Cumming but the different occupations confused me.

I think that Catherine Graham is going to be even harder to sort out even if I find a record of her death it probably wont record the names of her parents.

Thank you for supplying the links. I will visit the sites and let you know if I find anything new.

I hope that I haven't made any typos here especially on the dates - that would make things even messier

Regards, Lesley

[veryoldgal]

I am just making a short progress report.

It would appear that the David and Jean Cumming that we found in the 1841 Census would be David Cumming and Jean Anderson as this couple had a daughter named Christian born 1820.

I found a David Cumming who married Jean Marquis 24th Feb 1808 Canongate Edingurgh. This one looks promising because of her last name and the fact that Marquis is another family name that has been passed down through the generations. So far I have only found one child to this couple named Alexander born 1812.

Still haven't found any reference to George Marquis Cumming being born in Dublin yet, or any indication that David and Jean would have travelled to Ireland. I suppose that only time will tell where to go from here.

Thank you for your help so far and if it is o.k. I will post regular progress reports on my search - that is, if there is any progress
Regards, Lesley

[StewL]

Hi Lesley
Great to hear you are making advances in your tree.
We all love to hear update reports of peoples searches, sometimes those updates help people establish links with family lines of lang deid yins.
So keep posting, that is what TS is all about.