Robert MacGregor and the Mystery of the Non-existent Parents

[clairemcgillivray]

I thought I'd give this thread a Harry Potter-esque title since it seems to be taking me on a magical mystery tour of the archives!

My great-grandfather (my mother's, mother's father) is proving somewhat difficult to track down. I have birth and death date information from my parents, and I have no reason to believe it to be incorrect (especially the death date, as they attended his funeral!); what's really stumped me is that no matter how hard I try I cannot find a birth certificate (or even an index record) for him, or for an Alexander Macgregor that I believe to be his brother. Can anybody advise on where to look next or what could've possibly happened here please?

D.O.B: 23 Nov 1905, Alves, Morayshire [Source: Dad's Notes]
D.O.D: 15 Nov 1993, Bankfoot, Perthshire [Source: Dad's Notes]
Spouse: Annabella McKenzie, born 5 children Robert, Elizabeth, John, William, and Alexander [Source: Family Information]

I can only find one record of a Robert MacGregor marrying an Annabella McKenzie, and this is from the 20th of July 1935 in Elgin. Plausible date, correct area. This is what I can get from the certificate:

Groom: Robert Macgregor, 29 y.o railway surfaceman
Groom's Father: Alexander Macgregor, Roadman (Living)
Groom's Mother: Jeanie or Jessie (?) Macgregor, nee. MacKintosh (Living)
Residence: Huntly's Leave, Grantown-on-Spey
Bride: Annabella MacKenzie, 22 y.o. domestic servant
Bride's Father: William MacKenzie, Fisherman (Living)
Bride's Mother: Jeanie or Jessie (?) Main MacKenzie, nee. Baillie (Living)
Residence: 61 Forteath Street, Burghead

Robert's age on this certificate would back up a birth date of November 1905 and none of the residences stand out to me as unusual for our family. I've then got a death certificate for an Alexander MacGregor who I stumbled upon by accident whilst trying to find a death certificate for the Alexander Macgregor mentioned as Robert's father. Interesting side note: Alexander MacGregor the younger committed suicide by hanging; I'd be interested to know if he left any children behind.

D.O.D: 01 Jul 1943, Upper Dallachy, Banffshire
D.O.B: Age stated as 48 y.o., birth year c. 1894 / 95
Widow: Isabella Macgregor, nee. French
Profession: Mole Trapper
Father: Alexander MacGregor, Farm Servant (Living)
Mother: Jessie MacGregor, nee. Mackintosh (Living)

I've also got a marriage certificate for the younger Alexander and Isabella French on the 17th of January 1916 in Auldearn (again plausible date and location).

Groom: Alexander Macgregor, 20 y.o. farm servant
Groom's Father: Alexander Macgregor, Farm servant (Living)
Groom's Mother: Jessie (?) Macgregor, nee. McIntosh (Living)
Residence: Woodhead, Kinloss
Bride: Isabella French, 19 y.o. domestic servant
Bride's Father: James French, Farm Servant (Living)
Bride's Mother: Margaret French, nee. Dick (Living)
Residence: Old Ratcliffe Buildings, Auldearn

I personally think it's safe to say the following:
1. Robert and Alexander Macgregor are brothers
2. Their parents are Alexander Macgregor and Jessie (possibly Janet?) McIntosh

If so - why can I not find birth certificates for either of the brothers, or a marriage certificate for the parents? Where should I look next? Am I going completely in the wrong direction?

N.B: there is an incorrectly indexed record out there of a marriage between Jessie McIntosh and Alexander Macgregor (GROS 138/00 0005) but when it's opened the bride's name is clearly Rosie Webster McIntosh. I've reported this and they're going to correct it.

[WilmaM]

Have you looked at the 1911 census for the family?

There seem to be 3 Robert M*Gregor aged between 4 and 6 with a 2nd person named Alexander in Scotland that year.
and one with an Alex.

Even widening Robert's age doesn't give many more hits, so could be worth a check on them all.

Have a look at http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp too - it could throw up further nuggets to work on.

[AndrewP]

Hi Claire,

The 1911 census shows both parents with their 11 children (ages 1 to 17) born up to that time. Robert is there, aged 5, which would happily account for a 1905/1906 birth (including the November 1905 date that you have). Seven of the children (including Robert) were listed as being born in Alves, and six of their birth certificates can be seen there (Robert is missing from that list). The parents' marriage certificate can be found (looks like Rosie was Janet/Jessie). It looks like Rosie was either a pet name, or more likely the registrar's mistranscription of the marriage schedule into his register.

I did a search of all births registered in Alves in 1905 and 1906, and there are none there that you would see as a misspelling of your Robert. All the certificate numbers are accounted for, so there shouldn't be an indexing issue.

I did a search for Robert M*Gregor born anywhere in Scotland in 1905 or 1906. None of the ones anywhere near were to the right parents. So he could be one of the many elsewhere in Scotland (possible, I guess), but I see no way of narrowing them down to pick out likely ones without spending credits recklessly. The only way to search these would be during a day in the ScotlandsPeople Centre (or one of its outposts around Scotland). In the centre, these could be checked very quickly. That would produce one of two results: you find him, or his birth wasn't registered. As your information backs up the census information, it looks like the birth year of 1905/1906 is correct (with quite good confidence).

All the best,

AndrewP

[trish1]

Is this the family in 1901

1901 Alves, Moray
Toreduff Cottage
Alexander Macgregor 27 head born Kinloss Elginshire Ploughman Horses
Jessie Webster Macgregor 27 wife born Fortrose Rosshire
James Macgregor 7 son born Forres Elginshire
Alexander Macgregor 6 born Kinloss Elginshire
John Macgregor 4 born Alves Elginshire
George Macgregor 2 born Alves Elginshire

(Andrew has found them while I was searching)

The marriage you found fits the date of the birth of the first child - and the middle name of Jessie
1893 MCGREGOR ALEXANDER MCINTOSH JESSIE WEBSTER KINLOSS /MORAY 138/00 0005


Trish

[AndrewP]

Hi Claire,

There is good news - his birth certificate is there. The 1905 births in the index for births registered Alves in 1905 go from 1 to 39. However, if you select one from the last page (numbers 37 to 39), there is an option to go one page forward, and there is one last entry for that year on a new page, number 40 - your Robert McGregor.

I will send the certificate on to you and inform ScotlandsPeople that he is missing from their index.

You have an option to go back to ScotlandsPeople with this information, and seek recompense of credits that you have spent on an almost impossible search.

All the best,

AndrewP

[clairemcgillivray]

Oh my goodness, I just popped out to see friends and meet their new baby and I come back to a wealth of fantastic information! Thank you so much Wilma, Trish, and especially you Andrew for managing to find the mystery certificate! You've given me enough to continue on with my search confident that I'm not mistakenly following an incorrect trail!

I am so glad I joined this forum - I'm completely new to this and I think I'm doing alright so far, but having access to people such as yourselves with knowledge and experience is totally invaluable. Thank you so much, I'm positively gleeful now that I have my hands on this information and my partner is looking at my like I'm crazy because I did a little victory dance. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[AndrewP]

PS. I re-read the original question - you were also seeking Alexander's birth certificate. Using the info given by Trish, he was aged 6 years in 1901, and born in Kinloss, you can find his birth certificate.

For any Mc/Mac surnames, it is always safest to search for M* (which also covers M' which you will find on some documents). So in this case, a search for Alexander M*Gregor in Kinloss in 1894 to 1895 will find him.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Russell]

Good sleuthing Andrew
I'm glad Claire was looking for a McGregor rather than a McGilvray/McGillivray though. That name puts it into a different league altogether

Russell

[clairemcgillivray]

Thanks Andrew, I'll bear that in mind!

Russell - you're not kidding on the McGillivray front! So far I've found McGillivray, McGilveray, McGelveray, and so on and so forth!

[WilmaM]

Claire, before you start wasting credits on the Mcgillivry clan, run the names past our Russell,
he's probably met all your lot on paper years ago!