Need help in finding my GG Grandfather

[drow]

I am hoping I can get some help in breaking through a brick wall. My Great Grandfather was William McLean, born in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, anywhere from 1822 to 1828 according to the Scotland censuses and his 2nd marriage document of 1878. Confirming William’s father is my brick wall. William married my Great Grandmother Mary Donaldson in Glasgow in 1850. The marriage document states that they were both residence of Barony Parish and that William was a Bottle maker. In 1876, Mary Donaldson died after giving birth to my Grandfather, Daniel McLean (14th child born to William and Mary McLean). My first clue as to William’s father was when William re-married in 1878 to Agnes Cormie in the Parish of Bonhill in Dumbarton County. Although they were married in Dumbarton where Agnes was from, they lived in Glasgow. The marriage document states that William’s father was Neil McLean, General Labourer and his mother was Mary Logan, both deceased. I have searched the marriage records on Scotlandspeople for any marriages that took place between M*cLean and Mary Logan and came up with only one, James McLean and Mary Logan (1819). On this marriage, James McLean was a glass blower. The time and place seems right, and the fact that William was a bottlemaker and James a glass blower, I thought I might be on the right track. James and Mary Logan had a son William Williamson McLean in 1822 (who I figure could be my great grandfather). I also found it interesting that William McLean and Mary Donaldson called their first born son William Williamson McLean (1853). I have never been able to find a Neil McLean married to a Logan. To complicate matters, when my Great Grandfather, William McLean died in 1899, his son reported that William’s father was William McLean, Engine Keeper and that his mother was a Sarah Logan. The only thing common here is McLean and Logan, and because it is a death record, I don’t put much faith in it being accurate. When Mary Donaldson and William McLean had their first child in 1851, one of the witnesses was a James McLean, (could this have been William’s father)? Could William’s father be James McLean rather than Neil? I do not feel comfortable assuming his father was James, without proof. Am I missing anything? I have even thought and searched Neil James, James Neil, William Neil etc. and thought perhaps Neil could have been short for Daniel. At this point I am at my brick wall. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. I could not find or confirm William or his family on a 1841 census, which might have been a great help. I also wondered if the church of Scotland in Alexandria in the Parish of Bonhill, might have any records or banns for William McLean and Agnes Cormie, that would be different than that of the OPR on Scotlandspeople, showing the parents names? Thanks

[speleobat2]

Did William have any brothers or sisters or other relatives that you know of?

Carol

[nelmit]

The IGI shows James McLean and Mary Logan had at least 2 daughters born Glasgow and one of them was names Sarah - maybe that's where Sarah came from.

I like this family in 1841 from FREECEN mainly because of the Glass Cutters at the same address. Unfortunately there is no Janet, William or Sarah with them.

Piece: SCT1841/622 Place: Barony -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 12
Civil Parish: Barony Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: St Matthews
Folio: 12 Page: 11
Address: Hill Square

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MCLEAN James M 50 Labourer Lanarkshire
Page: 12/12 MCLEAN Mary F 40 Outside Census County (1841)
MCLEAN Elizabeth F 14 England
MCLEAN Agnes F 13 Cotton Factory England
MCLEAN Bridget F 11 England
MCLEAN Mary Ann F 8 England
MCLEAN Margaret F 7 England
MCLEAN Ann F 6 England
WYPER John M 25 Labourer Lanarkshire
SPILLAN William M 30 Glass Cutter Ireland
SPILLAN Nicolson M 35 Glass Cutter Ireland
PEARSON John M 25 Glass Cutter England
PROUDFOOT Rebecca F 25 Cotton Factory Lanarkshire
MCMACHAN Jean F 15 Hemp Dresser Ireland


James can be found in 1851 but it looks as though Mary died and he is married again. What makes him interesting is the fact that he is a Canal Labourer and I see William is living at Canal Street.....a very tenuous link I know

I'll see if I can find anything else to try and back up my theory.

Regards,
Annette

[drow]

Hi Carol: If James McLean and Mary Logan are William's parents, then I believe that he had at least two sisters. Janet born 1820 and Sarah born 1824. The problem is I have not been able to confirm this or find this family on a census. I am not aware of any other relatives.

[drow]

Hi Annette: I wasn't aware of Freecen, so I thank you for that. On there I was able to find a William McLean age 15 on an 1841 census where his occupation is founder and he was born in Lanarkshire. He was listed along with with 231 other people. The address is Police Officer??? If we can't find his family, this might be him, but does anyone know why these people are at the police Office? on Freecen Piece: SCT1841/644 Place: Glasgow - Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 06 Civil Parish: Glasgow Folio: 181 Page: 1 Address: Police Office.

Your find regarding James on the 1841 census is interesting. I appreciate you looking into this.

[AndrewP]

One possibility is that William McLean had been arrested and was in the cells at the Police Office. When you look at that same entry on ScotlandsPeople, the address is "Police Office" (not officer). The double page shown on SP is one page of seven police officers, and one of others (17 males and 8 females; of various occupations). There may be more on following pages.

All the best,

AndrewP

[WilmaM]

Freecen shows it as Police Office too:

1841 Census

231 Records found displaying records 1 to 100
Piece: SCT1841/644 Place: Glasgow -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 06
Civil Parish: Glasgow Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 181 Page: 1
Address: Police Office

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
COOPER Archibald M 45 Lieutenant Of Police Lanarkshire
PORTER Francis M 35 House Officer Lanarkshire
MCCALLUM James M 40 House Officer Outside Census County (1841)
GUN Morison M 65 Gate Officer Outside Census County (1841)
STAFFORD Margaret F 55 Female Servant Outside Census Cou
STAFFORD Bethia F 15 Steam Loom Weaver Lanarkshire
ROBERTSON Rosina F 20 Bleacher Lanarkshire
Page: 181/2 MCNICOL John M 15 Collier Lanarkshire
ROBERTSON John M 15 Carter Lanarkshire
SWAN John M 35 Porter Lanarkshire
SIMPSON James M 15 Sweep Lanarkshire
MCGLASHAN Thomas M 10 Sweep Lanarkshire
ADAM William M 15 Sweep Ireland
MCDONALD William M 15 Tailor Outside Census County (1841)
DIXON Henry M 10 Cooper Outside Census County (1841)
MURDOCH Robert M 15 Barber Lanarkshire
WADDELL David M 15 Piecer Ireland
POLLOCK James Thomson M 30 Cabinet Maker Lanarkshire
MCLEAN William M 15 Founder Lanarkshire

then about 9 other pages of names.
So yes 'fraid he was in the clink that night for whatever reason, if that's your man.

The Previous Household's address is Bell Street, which is where the Central Police Station was at that time.

[Currie]

Census 1841 was on the night of 6th-7th June, Sunday night.

There's an article about the coming census in the Glasgow Herald of 4th June, 1841.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=W ... %2C2599840

It includes the following:

“We may hint, out of kindness to those of our young city sparks, and otherwise decent operatives, who sometimes find themselves in the Police Office on Saturday nights, in virtue of a lark, to avoid it in this instance as they would a pestilence, and rigidly embrace teetotalism, were it only for the time the enumerators are on foot. For, if found within its precincts, down they go in the schedule as occupants of the police buildings, with name, age, occupation, and history; and no further influence will be able to erase it from the enumerator's schedule. This, though not inferring much culpability, perhaps, would be extremely awkward, and the unlucky wight would not have it in his power to erase the stigma from the black book for ten years. The returns from the police offices and prisons are likely to be extremely curious.”

Obviously, some people didn't listen, and carried on regardless, and have ended up in the “black book” for 174 years so far.

Hope that's interesting,
Alan

[drow]

Thank you Alan for the interesting newspaper article, and thank you also to Andrew P and Wonka2 for your information. I wasn’t sure if a Police Office could actually hold 231 people, or if this address was perhaps used to give help and shelter to those in need, especially since there were a lot of young people on that list. I see now from some of your comments that this was not the case and that this William McLean was likely in jail. If this is my William McLean on this 1841 census, does anyone know if police records exist that might give a bit more history and help in identifying parents, cause of arrest etc. If this is in fact him (without his family), I am not sure if there is any way of confirming his parents or other family. By 1851 he and his wife Mary are the only ones listed on the 1851 census as he had married Mary Donaldson in 1850. I have been concentrating on the names of William’s children, hoping that they are a repeat of his parents and siblings. They were: Ann, William Williamson, James, John Logan, Mary, Archibald, Alexander Brebner, Margaret, Archibald McDougall, Joseph Henney, Jane Elizabeth, James Donaldson, Robert and Daniel. Should I still be looking for a Neil McLean? You can see that William did not name any of his children Neil! Am I on the wrong track, thinking that James McLean and Mary Logan could be a possibility of being William’s parents? I am also curious to find out if the Church of Scotland in Alexandria where William married his 2nd wife in 1878 might have more information than that found on Scotlandspeople?

[AndrewP]

If there is a Neil to be found, I am not sure where he would fit in.

Code: Select all

child:                         birth:       where:                         father:          mother:         comment:

Ann Mclean                 27 October 1851  BARONY, LANARKSHIRE            William Mclean   Mary Donaldson  Christening: 23 Nov 1851
William Williamson Mclean      9 June 1853  BARONY, LANARKSHIRE            William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
James Mclean              13 December 1854  BARONY, LANARKSHIRE            William Mclean   Mary Donaldson  died 14-Mar-1855
John Logan Mclean          3 February 1856  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
Mary Maclean               10 January 1858  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Maclean  Mary Donaldson
Archibald Mclean           18 October 1859  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson  died 21-May-1861
Alexander Brebner Mclean   3 November 1861  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
Margaret Ann Mclean          6 August 1863  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
Archibald Mcdougall Mclean     20 May 1865  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
Joseph Henney Mclean      19 February 1867  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
Jane Elisabeth Mclean         29 June 1869  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
James Donaldson Mclean        1 March 1871  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
Robert Mclean                  14 May 1873  CENTRAL DISTRICT, GLASGOW      William Mclean   Mary Donaldson
Daniel McLean                31 March 1876  ST ROLLOX DISTRICT, GLASGOW    William Mclean   Mary Donaldson  mother died 12-Apr-1876

Apart from a longer gap between the last two, there is a fairly regular spacing of 18 months to 2 years between each birth.

All the best,

AndrewP