Help reading a certificate please!.....

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:56 am

Hi all,

I have uploaded a marriage registration for Carson Nicolson marriage in the approrpiate area of the gallery. I don't know if it's just me and my eyes today, but I can't read most of what is scrawled there. Can anyone please help?

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-314

Thanks in advance,

Nina

url added by JustJean

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:14 am

Hi Nina,

I read this certificate as:

1888 on the Fourth day of July at 8 West John Street, Glasgow
by Declaration in presence of
John Stein(?) Cook. Steel-Worker and Maggie Justice, Sewing Machine-Worker

Joseph Hyslop Cardon, Iron-Forgeman (Bachelor)
26
6 Campbell Terrace, Parkhead, Glasgow

Margaret Gillon Nicolson, Steam-Loom-Worker (Spinster), 26
26
6 Campbell Terrace, Parkhead, Glasgow

John Carson, Iron-Worker
and
Mary Carson, M.S. Hyslop

John Gillies Nicolson, Machinery _____ Maker (deceased_
and
Amy Nicolson, M.S. Ross (deceased)

Warrant of Sheriff-Substitute of Lanarkshire
dated 1st July 1888

1888 July 1st at Glasgow
_____ Reid, Registrar

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:21 am

Hi Nina, here's my best guesses.
--
1888
on the Fourth
day of July
at 8 East John Street
Glasgow
By Declaration
in Presence of
John Nicolson Steel Worker
and Maggie Mackie
Sewing Machinist
Worker
--
Joseph Hyslop Carson, 26
Iron-Forgeman
(Bachelor)
6 Chappell Terrace, Parkhead, Glasgow

Parents -
John Carson
Iron-Worker
and
Mary Carson
M.S. Hyslop
==
Margaret Gillies Nicolson, 26
Steam Loom Weaver
(Spinster)
6 Chappell Terrace, Parkhead, Glasgow

Parents -
John Gillies Nicolson
Machinery Belt Maker
(deceased) and
Ann Nicolson
M.S. Rofs
(deceased)
==
By Warrant of
Sheriff Substitute
of Lanarkshire
dated 4th July 1888
==
1888
July 4th
at Glasgow
Dan Sinclair
Registrar
==
Jack

bobbyinmelbourne · Post by **bobbyinmelbourne** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:24 am

Hi Ninatoo, I can make out a lot of it - my eyes must be attuned today.
Joseph Hislop Carson, 6 chappell Terrace Parkhead
Iron forge---. [bachelor]
Margaret Gillies Nicolson,6 Chappell Terrace "
Steam room weaver[doesn't sound pleasant]
His parents John Carson, ironworker;Mary Carson, ms Hislop
Her parents John Gillies Nicolson,machinery beltmaker.Deceased
Ann Nicolson ms Rofs[?]deceased
4 July 1888 at 8 East John St.
by declaration
John ??????? steel worker and Maggie Macrae, sewing machine worker.[Witnesses I suppose]
?????? of Sherriff Substitute
of Lanarkshire
dated 4th july 1888
Is that a help? I've just realised I didn't check their ages, but someone else probably will.
Bobby in Melbourne

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:34 am

I wrote mine down before I saw Andrew's post so I'll type what I saw then compare.

On 4th July At 8 East John Street, Glasgow
In Presence of John ....... Steel Worker
and Maggie Mackie Sewing machinist worker.

Joseph Hyslop Carson, Iron Forgeman
Margaret Gillies Nicolson, Steam Loom Worker

6 Chappell Terr, Parkhead.

John Carson, Iron worker and Mary Carson m.s. Hyslop
John Gillies Nicolson dec. ? Machine belt worker and Ann Nicolson m.s. Ross?

By warrant of .........etc.

I've put Nicolson as the surname as I assume you know it is but sometimes it looks like Nicols to me

Annette M

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:43 am

Jings, we're all up early this morning! - or in Bobby's case, nearing bedtime...

Found that "s" thingy for the Ross name - Roƒs. Can't remember what it's called.
(later, after a wee "google" - possibly a "long s"? I'm sure David W mentioned it not too long ago)
(later again - and a good morning to you too Annette!)

Jack

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:51 am

Good morning Jack and all.

The Nicols(on) was annoying me.

Here is Maggies family from the IGI

You searched for: Father: John Nicolson, Mother: Ann Ross

1. ELLEN GARDNER NICOLSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 10 MAR 1863 Bridgeton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

2. WILLIAM NICOLSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 28 FEB 1856 Strathblane, Stirling, Scotland

3. ANN ROSS NICOLSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 28 MAR 1857 Strathblane, Stirling, Scotland

4. MARGARET GILLIES NICOLSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 20 MAR 1859 Strathblane, Stirling, Scotland

5. NIEL NICOLSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 09 FEB 1861 Strathblane, Stirling, Scotland

Annette M

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:14 am

I Think I'll retire gracefully from certificate interpretation in the face of all this expertise

=D>

One thing to note about this Sheriff Warrant's registration is that, unlike marriages conducted by a minister, this register entry shows the actual signatures of the couple.

I can't recall if there's any particular name for ƒ other than the "old style s".

The "long s" is not the same thing, - that's the secretary hand "s", see http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/cont ... ge=s4_3_10 - from which ƒ might have derived, - Ah dinna ken.

Part of the reason BTW for all this is typesetters who couldn't be bothered to produce special characters and wanted to standardize, - hence we have "ye olde ......" where it was never a "y" in the first place, it was a thorn pronounced as "th"

The double ƒƒ, rendered ß in German, is called the eszet, but I can't find any particular name for the ƒ .

David

m

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:49 pm

You guys are AWESOME!!!

I am amazed at how good your eyes are! Mine never will adjust to that scrawl!

Thanks for that, and I do believe the name is Ross for the bride's mother, although I too thought it was Rof!

Thanks again for all the help!

Nina

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:01 pm

Nina

Giving away a trade secret here

, - half the trick is knowing from experience what particular words and information appear in which place.

If someone encounters a "Sheriff's Warrant" marriage register entry for the first time it's not uncommon to be confused by the different format, but the wording is common to all such entries, - sooo..... "seen one, seen them all"

On top of that, the hand here is a not uncommon type, so that, again, once you become accustomed to the variant, it's not that difficult to interpret.

In this case while the lower case letters are reasonably modern in style, the capital letters have at least elements of secretary style, which ain't easy for anyone unaccustomed to that style

David