The missing link & other items.....

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

Moderator: Global Moderators

Denny
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Northants

The missing link & other items.....

Post by Denny » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:37 pm

I have just found your site and hope somebody out there is able to help :D
After much heartache I have managed to find most of my father's family, needless to say there is a mystery and it had to be my grandfather! Luckily my father found some family records which have helped to piece people together, but as always much has been lost over the years. Without boring everyone to bits, the story is as follows:
Great grandparents James Angus & Mary Moffat, James was a shepherd died in Achilty in 1863, Mary in Dingwall 1896, they produced, so far found 10 children, one of which was Ann, my great grandmother, born 1842 in Lochbroom, she produced James Angus, my grandfather. Here come a couple of the problems!
Ann is last know to be living age 17 with her family in Contin, 1861 census and working as a I think a housekeeper and unmarried. I don't know if the place listed is perhaps in Gaelic but it looks as if spelt "Luibrach", after this she vanishes. Anybody know if there was an Estate in that area around that time that might have employed the family?
My gandfather surfaces in Edinburgh at the age of 3 (1871 census)living as a boarder with a family from Shetland called Peterson, where he stayed until joining the Royal Scots. From letters to him from another boarder and members of this family, he classed them as his own. As far as the family know grandfather was born in Edinburgh, unfortunately, no birth records there or Ross & Cromarty. I have a letter to him from the Royal Infimary supposed excerpt to confirm his birth, prior to his marrriage, but on checking no records exsist and the named father William Reid from Muscelborough, probably, a name better than no name?

CatrionaL
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Post by CatrionaL » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:38 pm

Hi Denny

A warm welcome to Talking Scot.

Have you looked for Ann Angus in the 1871 Census, outside of Ross & Cromarty? For instance there are 2 hits for Ann Angus in Midlothian, aged between 25 and 30, 10 if you search "All Records".

Best wishes

Catriona

Denny
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Northants

Post by Denny » Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:22 pm

Hi Catriona

Thank you for your reply & welcome

I tried the 1871 census and checked out the Ann's, but unfortunately none of them seem to be mine! While there I also checked deaths 1867-1870, for all disricts & marriages 1861-1871 again no connections. I've also checked births for James Angus 1867-1870, those for Edinburgh are not my grandfather and it seems neither are the rest listed!!

If I hadn't known him as a child I would seriously doubt if my gandfather exisited!

I do know that in the mid 50's 2 men arrived at his home in London, having been sent to find hiim by a stepbrother, just to complicate matters more. Unfortunately, he wouldn't talk about it, so nobody has a name or information. I imagine if they found him there's another part of our family out there somewhere!

Regards,

Denny

joette
Global Moderator
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: Clydebank

Post by joette » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:26 pm

Oh this sounds like an Agatha Christie mystery.I would be turning the pages quickly to find out the result if it was fiction.However it is somebody's life.
Sounds like an illegitimate but acknowledged Birth or a Marriage failure .
Is it possible that his Mother is Mrs Peterson with whom he is boarding with? Have you traced a Marriage for them(the Petersons.)
Perhaps he was registered under his Father's name but would he have had to produce some documentation to join up?Worth checking if there is any Army Records for him which might through some light on parentage.
My Great-Granny is listed as a Boarder with her Mother in the 1871 Census & she has her reputed Father's(named on her Marriage Certificate) name rather than her Mother's & her Mother is listed as Married too although I can find no record of any Marriage to anybody for her.
I wish I could help more but please keep us up to speed if you discover anything.
I know I have at least one Great-Uncle out there who was acknowledged & supported by my Grandfather(Father's side)& I know how thrilled I would be if any of his descendants managed to track us down but with a name like Scott!!!
Researching:SCOTT,Taylor,Young,VEITCH LINLEY,MIDLOTHIAN
WADDELL,ROSS,TORRANCE,GOVAN/DALMUIR/Clackmanannshire
CARR/LEITCH-Scotland,Ireland(County Donegal)
LINLEY/VEITCH-SASK.Canada
ALSO BROWN,MCKIMMIE,MCDOWALL,FRASER.
Greer/Grier,Jenkins/Jankins

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:16 pm

Hi Denny
Don't know if this is any help as you may have it already, but this looks like your James in the 1881:
  • Dwelling: 9 Orwell Pl
    Census Place: Edinburgh St Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Scotland
    Source: FHL Film 0223991 GRO Ref Volume 685-1 EnumDist 39 Page 7

    William PETERSON M 59 M Shetland, Scotland
    Rel: Head
    Occ: Shoemaker
    Margaret H. PETERSON M 58 F Shetland, Scotland
    Rel: Wife
    Margaret PETERSON U 18 F Edin, Edinburgh, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
    Occ: Dressmaker
    Alexander ROSS M 33 M Lanark Tn
    Rel: Son In Law
    Occ: Jeweller
    Philadelphia P. ROSS M 26 F Edin, Edinburgh, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
    James ANGUS 14 M Edin, Edinburgh, Scotland
    Rel: Boarder
    Occ: Scholar
    James SHIELS 13 M Edin, Edinburgh, Scotland
    Rel: Boarder
    Occ: Scholar
    John MILNE 9 M Edin, Edinburgh, Scotland
    Rel: Boarder
    Occ: Scholar
    Ann M. CAMERON 8 F Edin, Edinburgh, Scotland
    Rel: Boarder
    Occ: Scholar
I wonder if mother Ann moved to Edinburgh to work after 1861 and it was there that she met someone and had her son James. That seems to be a pattern repeated many times in my tree. Following that it is possible she may have married someone else - perhaps this is why you can't find her?

At the time of the deaths of James Angus & Mary Moffat I suppose daughter Ann doesn't turn up as an informant? I'm sure you'd have noticed if she had... Also, without a marriage or death entry of Ann Angus, how did you find James Angus & Mary Moffat's names? Did these names come from the family papers you mentioned? Sorry, lots of questions but just trying to get a clear picture of the situation.

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:05 pm

Hi Denny
These look like they might be your gr gr grandparents banns on the IGI. Looks like one of them was from Lochbroom and the other from Contin.
  • JAMES ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Male Marriage: 30 JAN 1835 Lochbroom, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

    JAMES ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Male Marriage: 23 JAN 1835 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland
Children found for this couple on the IGI are:
  • 1. (female) ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Female Birth: 29 OCT 1861 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

    2. ROBINA ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Female Birth: 21 MAY 1858 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

    3. ISABELLA ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Female Christening: 16 JUL 1852 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

    4. MARY ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Female Christening: 08 MAR 1846 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

    5. JAMES ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Male Birth: 10 JUL 1856 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

    6. DAVID ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Male Birth: 31 MAY 1863 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

    7. MARGARET ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Female Christening: 18 JUN 1850 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

    8. EFFY ANGUS - International Genealogical Index
    Gender: Female Birth: 20 MAY 1854 Contin, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland
- all extracted records at batches C110601 (1855 - 1867) & C110602 (1788 - 1854)

Is this the correct family?
Best wishes
Lesley

Denny
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Northants

Post by Denny » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:31 pm

Hi Joette
I am starting to think maybe Agatha Christie did write this story, just wish she'd told me the end!!
I have looked into the Peterson family, because of letters received by my grandfather from Mattie (Margaret) & Phila (Philadelphia) written in 1896. By the tone of the letters grandfather remained on very close terms with the family, they refer to each other as brother & sisters and their mother as his. Unfortunately nothing so simple! Margaret & William Peterson both came from Shetland & married in Duddingstone, Midlothian 16th May 1849, they produced at least six children. The last I know of any of them was in 1901, still in Edingburgh and Phila is married to Alexander Ross, a jeweller and they have 4 children.
I don't know what was produced for the Army, but certainly worth a try when I can get to London. Just another bit of confussion, I have a letter from the Edinburgh Royal Maternity Hospital, obtained for grandfather prior to his marriage. I know he had to pay for this, but I'm inclined to think it is not completely truthful!! It states "4th Jan 1868 male child, mother's name Ann Angus, her father James Angus, her mother Mary Moffat" correct so far "Father of child (as entered) William Reid, Engineer, Musclebrough" Dad tried but nobody there could find this in the books. Gds marriage cert has his father listed as William Angus, shoemaker, the same as William Peterson, strange?

Denny
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Northants

Post by Denny » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:09 pm

Hi Lesley,
Many thanks for your help. Yes the James Angus in 1881 is my grandfather, he is also with the family in 1871.
The family you found in Lochbroom are the gr gr grandparents
James came from Selkirk & Mary Moffat (his wife) from Inverness. James was a shepherd and died in Achilty in 1863, his wife in Dingwall in 1896, no such luck as Ann being a witness anywhere! I don't know of the female child in 1861, but there are 3 others William in 1837, John in 1839 & Ann in 1842, all born Lochbroom. The last knowledge of Ann is in 1861 in Contin area, the place with a strange name! I have found 2 Angus' still in Dingwall, but don't know if they might be part of the family & am unsure about contacting them. The last person I can trace is Mary who died in Dingwall in 1920.
I have added a bit more info on Joette's reply which probably makes things as clear as mud! Gd also reamained in close contact with John Milne, boarder, letters upto 1900 & he also refers to him as brother! I'm sure Ann married "somebody" because of the stepbrother that traced Gd in the 50's, but I've certainly lost her after 1861. So far I can find neither marriage or death in Scotland and knowing the family I'd be very surprised if she'd have travelled South, well at least past Edingburgh!
This is something my father began some years ago and kindly left it to me to solve. Unfortunately, like me he was the "baby" of the family, so nobody left to ask of his generation. There was family in Edinburgh & Cowdenbeath, but being a child I only remember given names, which is no help at all!!
Best wishes,
Denny

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:24 pm

Hi Denny
I had a look on Scotlands People but there seem to be quite a few Ann Anguses so it could cost a bit to search every likely marriage and death. A look at the records at NRH would probably come up with some answers, if you are pretty sure she didn't leave Scotland.

However, I note you are not very close to Edinburgh, so your choices might be limited to :
a. buy some credits on the SP web site to find a death and possibly a marriage - the death woudl give you the husband's name (link at top of page)
b. arrange a few day's holiday in Edinburgh :D and go to NRH
c. pay a researcher to look up the records for you
d. phone a friend who lives in central Scotland and promise them a bottle of nice wine to do the lookups for you! :lol:

She has to be there somewhere!

Do you have any note of when James Angus (b. abt 1866) died?

Best wishes
Lesley

Denny
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:00 pm
Location: Northants

Post by Denny » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:32 pm

Hi Lesley,

I know what you mean about the list on SP and I hate to say it has cost me a fortune so far, but none of them seem to tally, very elusive this lady! No marriage and no death.

The holiday in Edinburgh sounds like a good one :D unfortunately I no longer have any contacts there, so I guess last resort might have to be a researcher, just have to make sure the bank balance can take it, I'm sure you know what I mean!!

Granddad died on the 15th April 1957, in Middlesex.

I have emailed the Edinburgh Royal Maternity & Simpson Memorial Hospital (archives), where he was supposed to have been born, perhaps they might point me in a direction. So far only 3 were born under that name in Edinburgh, between 1867 & 1871 and they are not him!

Oh well I'll keep hunting as you say, she has to turn up somewhere, knowing my luck she emigrated!!

Best wishes and many thanks for your thoughts,

Denny