Bell.....

RChristopher · Post by **RChristopher** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:41 pm

Can anyone help me find information about the Bell family who moved from Scotland (sorry can't be more specific) to Liverpool, probably in the 1850s. I have the following names and details:

Alexander Bell, b. 1828, bootmaster (on 1851 Liverpool census)

The following are all living together in Liverpool on the 1861 census:

Robert Bell, b.1832, bootmaster. Wife Martha from Liverpool, children Mary (4) and Jessie (2).
John Bell, b.1844, boot closer, brother (?) of Robert.
Robert Bell, b. 1838, lithographic printer, cousin (?) of Robert and John.
David Bell, b.1840/1, lithographic printer, cousin (?) of Robert and John, brother (?) to second Robert.

David is my great, great grandfather. His father was also called Robert, was a shoemaker, and may never have moved to Liverpool. As far as I know, all of the Bells above stayed in Lancashire. Alexander may have moved to the Fylde area near Blackpool. I have not been able to find anything of relevance on "Scotland's People".

Richard

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:22 pm

Hi Richard
...and a warm welcome to Talking Scot

I wonder if you may find something once the 1841 census comes online? Though looking at the IGI there are quite a few Alexander Bells born around 1828 & the same with Robert around 1832...

I take it that any census returns you have seen just state "Scotland" with no further clues?

Is this your David in 1881?

Dwelling 102 Salop St
Census Place Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341880
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3676 / 69
Page Number 19
David BELL Head M Male 40 Scotland Printer
Elizabeth BELL Wife M Female 34 Liverpool
Mary E. BELL Daur Female 12 Liverpool
Janet BELL Daur Female 10 Liverpool
David BELL Son Male 9 Liverpool
James BELL Son Male 7 Liverpool
Peter BELL Son Male 6 Liverpool
Elizabeth BELL Daur Female 1 Liverpool

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:33 pm

Hi Richard
Checking the 1881 for Robert Bells in Scotland with shoemaking connections I came across this one:

Dwelling: Low Killocraw
Census Place: Killean & Kilchenzie, Argyll, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203558 GRO Ref Volume 519 EnumDist 4 Page 7
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Duncan SINCLAIR M 41 M Glenorchy, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Shepherd
Jennie SINCLAIR M 39 F Calder, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Shepherds Wife
Donald SINCLAIR 12 M Kilcalmonell, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Robert SINCLAIR 10 M Kilcalmonell, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Christina SINCLAIR 8 F Kilcalmonell, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Duncan SINCLAIR 7 M Campbelton, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Margaret SINCLAIR 5 F Campbelton, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Jennie SINCLAIR 3 F Campbelton, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Flora SINCLAIR 10 m F Killean, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Robert BELL W 67 M Culross, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Visitor
Occ: Shoemaker
Alexander MC KINVEN U 25 M Killean, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Farm Servant
John MC CALLUM U 28 M Killean, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Farm Servant

Wonder if that's you man?
Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:05 pm

But there is also this on Freecen for 1841:

Piece: SCT1841/841 Place: Middlebie-Dumfries-shire Enumeration District: 3
Civil Parish: Middlebie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 3 Page: 15
Address: Eaglesfield
BELL Margaret F 65 Parish Pauper Dumfries-shire Occ: Parish crossed out
BELL Robert M 25 Shoemaker Dumfries-shire
BELL Margaret F 25 Dumfries-shire

RChristopher · Post by **RChristopher** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:47 pm

Hi Lesley

Many thanks for your replies.

That is indeed my great great grandfather and his family living in Kirkdale. His daughter Elizabeth, aged 1, is my great grandmother. Unfortunately she died during the war when my dad was about 1, so he doesn't remember her, but his older cousins say she used to speak with a definite Scottish lilt. This is despite never leaving Liverpool to our knowledge!

I had guessed that the Bells may have come from the south west of Scotland as this seems to be where the highest concentration of families with that name originate. Unfortunately, however, I only have the name Robert and his occupation as shoemaker from David's marriage certificate, so I have no way as yet of telling whether the two you have found are him. Is there any way of finding out about his birth? I am only really used to English BMDs, and was less than successful with the Scotland's People website.

Richard

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:04 pm

Hi Richard
Because the births you are interested in are before 1855 when statutory registration started in Scotland, the births, if they were documented, will be in the OPRs. A lot of the OPR materail is on the IGI at www.familysearch.org and also at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk but in both cases you can only see a summary of the births, not the actual wording.

It is difficult without a mother's name to work with. Even if you found the death in Scotland of one of the above Roberts, whose wife would most likley be mentioned on his death entry, without knowing who she was in the first place it would not give you any material to cross reference!

I can only suggest you look at the names your David gave his female children and any middle names his children were given to see if any clues as to his mother's name can be gleaned from that.... 2nd girl seems to be called Janet... I wonder....

Best wishes
Lesley

grannysrock · Post by **grannysrock** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:45 pm

HI Richard:
Did you see this family on FreeCen ?:

Piece: SCT1841/692 Place: Leith-Midlothian Enumeration District: 20
Civil Parish: South Leith Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 20 Page: 5
Address: Kirkgate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
BELL Robt. M 40 Shoemaker Outside Census County (1841)
BELL Janet F 30 Outside Census County (1841)
BELL Marion F 10 Midlothian
BELL Peter M 9 Midlothian
BELL Robert M 4 Midlothian
BELL David M 2 Midlothian

I know the age seems off for David - but - to cut a long story short if you search the 1851 census for a 10 year old David Bell , you will find the above family plus more children* in Edinburgh at Lower Greenside. Possible ?
The 1851 gives Robert senior's Pob as Perth .

Sally

RChristopher · Post by **RChristopher** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:07 pm

Hi Sally and Lesley

I was going to respond to Lesley about looking for someone called Janet, but I've been beaten to it! And with something that actually looks promising - certainly the best yet! The occupation is correct for Robert, the ages are within a year or two (they never seemed to know how old they were then anyway), David has a brother called Robert 2 years older, the mother is called Janet (David's second daughter - the first has his mother-in-law's name). I can hardly bear the excitement.

A large dram is surely in order. Slainte, Sally!

Best wishes to you both
Richard

grannysrock · Post by **grannysrock** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:23 pm

Richard - too late - I already poured one - it was one of those days and I felt the need for a wee genealogical chaser to cheer me up

I was in the middle of typing a bit more - carrying on from my last post:

That Robert Bell may have married Janet ADAMSON 17 MAY 1829 Edinburgh. Unfortunately can only see one of their children on the IGI .

The Robert who was married to Janet Adamson died 1869 Leith, parents given as Peter Bell , shoemaker deceased and Elizabeth MAXTON deceased.

Parent search for Peter Bell and Elizabeth Maxton ( married 14 DEC 1787 Perth, Perth, Scotland
) gives:

JAMES BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 14 SEP 1788 Perth, Perth, Scotland
JOHN BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 08 AUG 1790 Perth, Perth, Scotland
PETER BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 JAN 1792 Perth, Perth, Scotland
ADAM BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 16 FEB 1794 Perth, Perth, Scotland
JANET BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 31 JUL 1796 Perth, Perth, Scotland
ROBERT BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 04 AUG 1799 Perth, Perth, Scotland
MARGARET BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 08 AUG 1802 Perth, Perth, Scotland
WILLIAM BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 16 DEC 1804 Perth, Perth, Scotland
DAVID BELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 28 JUN 1807 Perth, Perth, Scotland

Mmm only 6 other sons to check out ..... assuming the daughters didn't have children out of wedlock.

I'm trying to think of a quick/inexpensive ( haha ) way to do that.

But I'm getting ejected from my seat as I speak, so I'll have to bid you all good night ....

Sally

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:22 pm

Well done Sally $\:D/$ - looks the most likely lot yet!
Best wishes
Lesley