James & Matthew FERN m. Elizabeth & Jane McIVOR; Sco

vickory · Post by **vickory** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:32 am

Hello,
I'm new to this forum, having searched your archives without success I'm hoping someone here may be able to help.

I am seeking information about brothers that married sisters in Scotland (as far as I can tell) & then emigrated to Queensland, Australia.

James & Elizabeth aboard the "Ariadne" in 1862.
They may have married in Edinburgh on April 14th, 1861.
They had a son James H M born in QLD on August 27th, 1864.
The birth was registered in QLD, Australia in 1864. NO. 001728.

Matthew & Jane aboard the "Samarang" in 1865.
Matthew was a wood carver.
They married in Glasgow on July 11th, 1861.
They had a son James born at 12 Moore Street, Glasgow on August 31st, 1864.
The birth was registered on September 17th in Glasgow. NO. 2385613CE.
He too emigrated to OZ aboard the "Samarang" in 1865.

Elizabeth & Jane's parents may have been Patrick & Elizabeth.
James & Matthew's parents may also have been Patrick & Elizabeth...
so confusing

My great grandmother was Elizabeth Vera FERN.
Parents James & Elizabeth.
As yet I have found no evidence of her birth or that of her sister Rose Ann Alos Fern.

I believe them to be the daughters of James Fern & Elizabeth McIvor but am at a loss as to any to proof.

Any help or suggestions will be much appreciated.

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:59 am

Hello and welcome Vicki,
If you look at the marriage entry of Matthew and Jane on Scotlands People this should give both sets of parents' names.

Good luck,
Kind regards,
Annette M

vickory · Post by **vickory** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:09 am

Hello Annette,
I can't use scotlandspeople at the moment... I have 26 credits but as usual they are expired & I can't purchase more at the moment.

I am sorry I should have thought to ask for suggestions other than using ScotlandsPeople site but thanks very much for the reply & suggestion anyway.

Regards, Vicki.

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:03 pm

Hello Vickory

The only Fern/M*cIvor marriage on SP from 1855 -1864 is the one you referenced in Glasgow.

1 1861 FERN MATTHEW MCIVOR JANE TRADESTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/09 0260

and the only James Fern on the 1861 census aged 15 -40 anywhere is an unmarried servant:

1861 FERN JAMES M 15 MARYKIRK /KINCARDINE 265/00 006/00 004

Both sets of parents are shown deceased on the MC in 1861. Neither set of parents come up with any births on the parent search of IGI. I suggest you wait until the 1841 census is available and try and unravel this then.

Best wishes
Jean

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:30 pm

Hi folks,
There is this marriage on the 15th April. Could it be a very poor transcription of FERN(s)?
Or even misheard?
Vicki, where did you get the 1861 marriage details for your James & Elizabeth?
--
JAMES TERANCE
ELIZABETH MCIVOR
Marriage: 15 APR 1861 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
--
Jack

vickory · Post by **vickory** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:29 pm

Hello Jean & Jack,

Thank you both for looking for me.

The marriage information for James & Elizabeth came from James C Fern, a living direct tail male descendant in Oz, but without sources.
He also provided details of the birth of Matthew & Jane's son, James, from a Scottish birth certificate in his possession.
He thinks his pedigree goes like this:-
Matthew-James Henry Marshall-Reuben Herbert Leigh-James Albert-James C
But I am not sure that he is correct because....
From QLD immigration I found the 2 references to the couples arrivals & from QLD & NSW BDM indexes their children.
James & Elizabeth arrived in 1862.
Matthew & Jane arrived in 1865, with their son James born in Scotland in 1864. I have not yet found any other references to him.
The only other child I have found reference to for this couple was another son named Matthew, born in QLD in 1867, died NSW 1934.

James & Elizabeth also had a son James born in 1864 in QLD.
His birth is registered as James Henry Marshall FERANS, he has a son Rubin Herbert Leigh, who has a son James Albert, all registered in QLD... so I think it more likely that James C is mistaken about the parentage of his great grandfather than that the QLD records are all wrong.

James & Elizabeth's children's surname spelling varies widely on the registration indexes... there is FERANS, FERN, FERNS, FEREUS, FERARS & FEARNS.
I can only assume that their accent &/or writing was not well understood.
I have found one reference that says James was a gardener.

The death index for both Elizabeth Vera & Rose Ann Alos give parents as James & Elizabeth, their marriages as spinsters give maiden name as FERN so, together with all the family history memories I know that they belong with this family... I just can't find any birth records in OZ to prove the case, nor have I found any other James & Elizabeth Fern that they may belong to. Yet if they were born in Scotland why do they not appear on the immigration record with their parents?

TERANCE does not seem impossible when in proximity to FERANS & all those other spellings

Does that reference give any further detail please Jack?

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:05 pm

Hi Vicki and Jack

I thought I'd put you all out of your misery

! First a nice round of applause for Jack's brilliance...once again!!! Although......I thought you were playing a wee gemme

as when I searched SP for a Terance/McIvor union...there wasn't one!!!

So I settled for Ferance/McIvor and bingo!! Now for the bad news....

..unless they were totally muddled up.....NONE of the parents names match up....James to Matthew's nor Elizageth's to Janes.

I will also divulge that James parents are not listed as deceased in 1861 and Elizabeth's father is also not deceased. When you are ready to top off your credits and have another go at the SP databases looks like you'll have some good starting points to go from

!

Best wishes
Jean

vickory · Post by **vickory** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:10 pm

Hello Jean,

Thank you for the information.
It could easily be possible that they're all muddled up, I suppose after 5 generations & 140 odd years that's understandable.

Regards, Vicki.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:50 pm

Hi Vicki and Jean,
I couldn't resist a wee peek at them today either! And like yourself Jean, discovered that the parents are nothing alike....
I'm 99% sure it was as FERENCE - there were a couple of other "F"s on the page to compare.
So Vicki, just to stop you wondering who's who....
--
James FERANCE, 28 (gardener). pas -James FERANCE (gardener) & Elizabeth DOCHERTY.
Elizabeth McIVOR, 18 (general broker). pas - Patrick McIVOR (general broker) & Margaret STEWART (dcd).
[15 APR 1861, Edinburgh, forms of the R.C. Church]
&
Matthew FERN, 29 (wood carver). pas - Owen FERN (tailor) & Hannah STANHOPE (dcd).
Jane McIVOR, 24 (no occup). pas - James McIVOR (bricklayer) & Agnes LOGAN (dcd).
[11 JUL 1861, Glasgow, forms of the Free Church]
--
Jack

vickory · Post by **vickory** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:05 pm

Hello Jack,

Thank you very much

WOW! Lots of new people to search for now, perhaps some elusive death registrations will turn up using these new combinations... & a couple I have will have to be looked at again to double check who they belong to.

I'll let you know any results, thanks again,
Regards, Vicki.