McNairs - any suggestions?.....

[winger]

Hi, I am researching the McNair family from Paisley. The line begins with Duncan mcnair/ann cochran married 1752 in paisley. They had 10 children - the last child was Hugh (my line) he was born 1772 in Paisley. this is were it all goes wrong! - the only marriage I can find is to Agnes Herbertson in Kilbarchan in 1794. They have a son John born 1800 and his mother is listed as Hervieson (is this the same marriage?) I have a possible sibling for John - Hugh born 1802 who lists his mother as Howieson (same mother?) . What I am trying to do is find the death of John. the thing is if I take the line from my generation back I come to John McNair who married Agnes McLellan in Lochwinnoch in 1824 but John dies after the 1841 census and before 1851 census so I cannot confirm who John's mother is and therfore I cannot complete the line!
does anyone have any suggestions!. this is daein' ma' heid in!

[joette]

Hi Winger & Welcome to TalkingScot.It is so frustrating when we just can't seem to get around or demolish a brick wall we know there is a way but we it is just outwith our grasp.
Re changes of names-I have seen so many variation on a theme it makes me laugh or cry depending how much it blocks my search.
My suggestion would be to try to view the OPR at either Family History Centre(if they don't have them they can order for a small fee.)or in Edinburgh.Sometimes when you read the original it gives info or leads not aviable on the transcription e.g a name or occupation.
Were their any daughters born to John? If he had one called Ann(especially a 2nd.) it would conform to the traditional Scottish naming pattern-or even Duncanina.
Hope somebody else can offer more insight my b rain is on strike this week.

[winger]

mmm...thought about that. Ok how would this work - his 1st three children are all girls, he has Agnes, Flora and Jane.
John's wife is Agnes McClellan her mother is Flora McMillan and I dont know who Jane would be after. John's mother could also be Agnes Herbertson/Harvieson/Howieson - who would Jane be called after? his grandmother would be ann cochran but would the 1st child be after the grandmother or the mother on the fathers side?...good grief!..I am sooo confused with so many Agnes'...The only other idea I had in trying track down John's parents was to find more siblings - so far I only have one brother Hugh, it doesn't seem very much as all the other McNair lines had about 9 children each - and all the same names in each generation!!! I might persue this line again as I really am at a brick wall.

[joette]

Here is the usual BUT not always followed Scottish naming pattern.
1st Son -Father's Father
2nd Son-Mother's Father
1st Daughter-Mother's Mother
2nd Daughter-Father's Mother
Then third of each sex could be after GGrandparents or Aunties/Uncles/Doctor who delivered them,Minister who christened them.
One of my GGG called her eldest & first child for her stepmother-mainly because her sister had a daughter with her Granny's name.I would love to know what they called their only other daughter who died but she is not christened so don't know if she was even named.
So if they followed the pattern looks likely you have the right parents.

[LesleyB]

Hi all - the third boy and girl are usually called after the father and mother and then its open season!

Best wishes
Lesley

[winger]

I just wanted to add a post script to my post to let everybody know that no matter how impossible those brick walls seem - they can be brought down!!!

my original problem was confiming John McNair born around 1800 was connected to Duncan McNair/Ann Cochran born 1735 but with no death cert I could not confirm the parents of John McNair - having looked for his siblings and only found Hugh - both born in Kilbarchan with a mother listed as hervison I chcked John's children and they were born in Howwood (which is not a million miles from Kilbarchan) and discovered that Hugh died 1874 and lists his parents as Hugh McNair and Ann Cochran - the informant was Alexandeer McNair from Whiteinch. The only alexander McNair in Whiteinch on the 1871 Census and from the family history I had already done was the McNair line I was researching so that tied Hugh to my line and the fact that he lists the grandmothers name Ann cochran instead of the mother (Hervison/Herbertson) confirms the connection to Duncan McNair and Ann Cochran in the previous generation. I am presuming that Agnes Herbertson/Hervison died after having the two children John and Hugh and so the name was lost within the family - but thank goodness!!!!

So another one down - a few more still to go

[Russell]

Hi Winger

Your enquiry got me all excited. I knew I had seen a McNair entry in the Old Burial Ground Register for the United Presbyterian Church, Kilbarchan (now the East Church)
The entry is for Lair A 177 and reads
Heirs of James McNair - bleacher Merchant's Close, Kilbarchan
9' X 9' (plot size) Burials 2 Jan 1875 Hugh McNair age 75 Kelvinhaugh
3 April Elizabeth McNair age 5yr3m Kelvihaugh
24 Aug 1877 Ann McNair age 2yr3m Whiteinch
12 Georges St
Alexr McNair Whiteinch
at the bottom of the page is the following entry
"July 7 1877 I,John McNair, hereby give up all claims to Burying Ground belonging my deceased father and wish my brother Alexr's name down instead of mine. Signed John McNair"
This is definitely your family as the Whiteinch link confirms.
Maybe not the earlier generation but may be useful additional information with two deaths in childhood.

Russell

[winger]

wow! I just logged back on to the forum after quite some time and saw this info - it is a fantastic peice of info as it confirms all the info I have.
thank you so much for taking the time to post it for me.
and it just show that persistance pays off!!!

thank you so much

[winger]

Ok - I was really excited when I saw this record as it confims the whiteinch connex - but now I am tearing my hair out trying to understand who James is?
the record says the heirs of James McNair - I know from the death records of Alex and John that their father is Hugh so who would James be?
does anyone know how lairs work in terms of being passed on?

I would appreciate any assistance with this - it is a really important record for me because it may be that the info I have is incorrect in which case I would rather know and continue to research than have incorrect information.

[Russell]

Hi Winger

I too have not been on TS much the past few months but hope to catch up soon.
I have looked again at the Lair records and can't add anything to it at all from my first post. There is no clue to the other 'Heirs' mentioned and it is possible that there were several children who fell into that category. Some of those heirs could have stayed in Kilbarchan while Alexander took his family off to Kelvinhaugh then a couple of miles down the road to Whiteinch.
It is possible that any relatives in the village took themselves off to places abroad once the weaving/spinning/carding/bleaching started to decline in the mid 1800's and work was transferred to Paisley and Calton in Glasgow.
Several of my wife's handloom weavers from Paisley emigrated to Canada and continued as handloom weavers over there.
Lairs in the East Church Burying ground were large and one 9' X 9' lair holds 11 members of the extended family. Your McNair plot is interesting as only immediate family were interred there. Often mother-in-law, brother-in-law etc were also buried in a family lair.
Although no purchase date is given A177 is a relatively high number for that early part of the burying ground so it was probably purchased around 1840-1850. There is no memorial stone now, if there ever was one.
I will keep looking but almost all the Church records are now lodged with the National Archive in Edinburgh.
I'll e-mail you a picture of the graveyard as it is now.

Russell