Trying to find details of William Douglas, born circa 1800, married to Jane Walton?, and father of Jane Douglas, who was born in Colvend/Southwick, Kirkcudbrightshire, circa 1820.
Jane had an illegitimate son, Samuel, in 1844, who was born in Colvend.
Any help greatly appreciated. The brick wall situation has been with me for almost a year.
Ian Douglas
Douglas Family Ancestors.....
Moderator: Global Moderators
-
LesleyB
- Posts: 8184
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
- Location: Scotland
Hi Ian
..and a warm welcome to Talking Scot
I'm not sure where you have looked so far - have you found any of the family on the 1841 census? Maybe try freecen http://www.freecen.org.uk
if you have not been there already. Do you know what William's occupation was?
When was your last sighting of William? Do you think there is any chance he may still have been alive after 1855?
Sorry, lots of questions!
Best wishes
Lesley
..and a warm welcome to Talking Scot
I'm not sure where you have looked so far - have you found any of the family on the 1841 census? Maybe try freecen http://www.freecen.org.uk
if you have not been there already. Do you know what William's occupation was?
When was your last sighting of William? Do you think there is any chance he may still have been alive after 1855?
Sorry, lots of questions!
Best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
-
Jack
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
- Location: Paisley
Re: Douglas Family Ancestors
Hi Ian,
Welcome to TalkingScot!
This 1851 census is online at http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx
Could this be your family? Household head Jane 75 is a good bit older though.
May i ask why you think William DOUGLAS who married Jane WALTON was born abt 1800?
--
1851 census Parish: Colvend:
Address: Borland Kiln (861) Household No: 4/32
DOUGLAS, Jane :head of household: widow: PAUPER (former farm servant) Age: 75: born Mouswald Dms
DOUGLAS, Henriatta : daughter of Jane Douglas: unmarried Occup: SERVANT farm Age: 45: born Colvend Kbt
THOMSON, Jane: grand daughter of Jane Douglas: unmarried Occup: MAID house Age: 17: born Colvend Kbt
DOUGLAS, Janet: grand daughter of Jane Douglas: SCHOLAR Age: 9: born Colvent Kbt
DOUGLAS, Samuel: grandson of Jane Douglas: SCHOLAR Age: 5: born Colvend Kbt
--
Jack
Welcome to TalkingScot!
This 1851 census is online at http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx
Could this be your family? Household head Jane 75 is a good bit older though.
May i ask why you think William DOUGLAS who married Jane WALTON was born abt 1800?
--
1851 census Parish: Colvend:
Address: Borland Kiln (861) Household No: 4/32
DOUGLAS, Jane :head of household: widow: PAUPER (former farm servant) Age: 75: born Mouswald Dms
DOUGLAS, Henriatta : daughter of Jane Douglas: unmarried Occup: SERVANT farm Age: 45: born Colvend Kbt
THOMSON, Jane: grand daughter of Jane Douglas: unmarried Occup: MAID house Age: 17: born Colvend Kbt
DOUGLAS, Janet: grand daughter of Jane Douglas: SCHOLAR Age: 9: born Colvent Kbt
DOUGLAS, Samuel: grandson of Jane Douglas: SCHOLAR Age: 5: born Colvend Kbt
--
Jack
-
SarahND
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5647
- Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
- Location: France
Hi Ian,
And this one down the road in 1851 must be Jane, the mother of Samuel, who was in service while her mother looked after the grandchildren.
Name: DOUGLAS , Jane
Address: Colvend Manse(861)
Parish: Colvend
Relationship: household of Thomas Fraser
Marital Status: unmarried
Occupation: SERVANT house
Age: 32
Born: born Colvend Kbt
Household No: 1/70
It does seem odd that William would have been born in 1800, if this is the correct family, since his widow Jane has a daughter born abt. 1806. Perhaps she was married before and then married a much younger man?
I realize this is not yet finding you your William... just trying to get our bearings in the family...
all the best,
Sarah
And this one down the road in 1851 must be Jane, the mother of Samuel, who was in service while her mother looked after the grandchildren.
Name: DOUGLAS , Jane
Address: Colvend Manse(861)
Parish: Colvend
Relationship: household of Thomas Fraser
Marital Status: unmarried
Occupation: SERVANT house
Age: 32
Born: born Colvend Kbt
Household No: 1/70
It does seem odd that William would have been born in 1800, if this is the correct family, since his widow Jane has a daughter born abt. 1806. Perhaps she was married before and then married a much younger man?
I realize this is not yet finding you your William... just trying to get our bearings in the family...
all the best,
Sarah
-
LesleyB
- Posts: 8184
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
- Location: Scotland
Hi all
Ian asked me to post this info he sent me:
Lesley
Ian asked me to post this info he sent me:
Best wishesThe one and only time I have encountered William Douglas is on the registration of his daughter Jane's death in 1895, when his occupation was given as a shepherd.
His wife's name is also on the registration, and appears to be Jane Walton, but I have also found on the 1871 census a Jane Douglas, agricultural labourer, aged 53 (I understand in those days people were never all that certain of their true ages) living at Boreland Kiln, Colvend. The only other occupant of the home was a Janet Walker, widow, aged 71, ex agricultural labourer. Could this be her mother?
Lesley
-
Jack
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
- Location: Paisley
Re: Douglas Family Ancestors
Hi Ian,
As Lesley suggested, maybe try and find William DOUGLAS & Jane WALTON in the 1841 census.
Hopefully daur Jane (and siblings) will be with them.
Have you found another Samuel DOUGLAS who might be Jane's son in the 1851 census?
It might also be worth trying to find Henriatta DOUGLAS (aged 45 in 1851) in earlier / later censuses - and her DC.
Even if just for elimination purposes.
I know couples mainly did marry when in their 20s, but for quite a few it was later in life.
If your William (and wife Jane) were born about 1800 and married around 1820,
then you'd expect them still to be having children into the 1830s, and possibly even 1840s.
But if they were older, and married say the late 1790s, then daur Jane might've been one of their last children.
--
Jack
ps,
But this might be Henrietta? (age of 45 in 1851 doesn't fit though)
HENRIETTA DOUGLAS - Christening: 23 MAY 1814 Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Parents:
JAMES DOUGLAS
JEAN THOMSON
--
Any chance that on Jane DOUGLAS's 1895 DC her father's name of William could be wrong?
Who was the informant?
--
As Lesley suggested, maybe try and find William DOUGLAS & Jane WALTON in the 1841 census.
Hopefully daur Jane (and siblings) will be with them.
Have you found another Samuel DOUGLAS who might be Jane's son in the 1851 census?
It might also be worth trying to find Henriatta DOUGLAS (aged 45 in 1851) in earlier / later censuses - and her DC.
Even if just for elimination purposes.
I know couples mainly did marry when in their 20s, but for quite a few it was later in life.
If your William (and wife Jane) were born about 1800 and married around 1820,
then you'd expect them still to be having children into the 1830s, and possibly even 1840s.
But if they were older, and married say the late 1790s, then daur Jane might've been one of their last children.
--
Jack
ps,
But this might be Henrietta? (age of 45 in 1851 doesn't fit though)
HENRIETTA DOUGLAS - Christening: 23 MAY 1814 Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Parents:
JAMES DOUGLAS
JEAN THOMSON
--
Any chance that on Jane DOUGLAS's 1895 DC her father's name of William could be wrong?
Who was the informant?
--
-
JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
Hi Ian
I hope you don't mind if I jump in and add some more input. This is a tricky family to follow but I hope this might help you.
I am assuming you're coming at this through Samuel. So you have his MC and know that his mom was Jane and no father was ever named. Then you also know that Samuel was the informant for Jane's death and this is where you get the name William from. But I hope you also noticed on the DC that William was a correction.....underneath is written James. Wouldn't it be truly amazing if Samuel had had it right the first time!!
Hmmmm......
Ok...now you also have the 1851 census and there is wee Samuel age 5 with his Grannie Jane DOUGLAS. Also in the household is Henrietta who is a daughter to Jane and a couple more kiddies. This census is really the critical connecting point for you and assuming all the relationships are named correctly then Henrietta has to be a sister to Samuel's mom, Jane. When you track down the death of Henrietta you'll find that she has another sister, Mary. You'll also find that the parents are named James DOUGLAS and Jane THOMPSON. Problem is though on the IGI there is only the birth of Henrietta listed...and also another sister Grizel who I haven't managed to find yet. A further search on the BIVRI disks will give you a huge bonus of siblings.. ..but still unfortunately no Jane or Mary. 
DOUGLAS, John Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 18 Jul 1807 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, Grizel Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 6 Jan 1810 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, James Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 19 May 1812 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, Henrietta Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 23 May 1814 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, William Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 15 Nov 1817 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, Robert Thomson Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 20 Jun 1820 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
From a search in 1841 it appears that Jane was already widowed so there really is no sure way to trace her mysterious shepherd husband. Unfortunately Jane herself seems to have disappeared/died between 1851 and 1855 so again no way to prove the THOMSON/WALTON surname.
Like I said above. If we trust the relationships stated in the 1851 census then Samuel's mom Jane was a daughter of James DOUGLAS and Jane/Jean THOMSON and the above listing of offspring would be her siblings.
Best wishes
Jean
I hope you don't mind if I jump in and add some more input. This is a tricky family to follow but I hope this might help you.
I am assuming you're coming at this through Samuel. So you have his MC and know that his mom was Jane and no father was ever named. Then you also know that Samuel was the informant for Jane's death and this is where you get the name William from. But I hope you also noticed on the DC that William was a correction.....underneath is written James. Wouldn't it be truly amazing if Samuel had had it right the first time!!
Hmmmm......Ok...now you also have the 1851 census and there is wee Samuel age 5 with his Grannie Jane DOUGLAS. Also in the household is Henrietta who is a daughter to Jane and a couple more kiddies. This census is really the critical connecting point for you and assuming all the relationships are named correctly then Henrietta has to be a sister to Samuel's mom, Jane. When you track down the death of Henrietta you'll find that she has another sister, Mary. You'll also find that the parents are named James DOUGLAS and Jane THOMPSON. Problem is though on the IGI there is only the birth of Henrietta listed...and also another sister Grizel who I haven't managed to find yet. A further search on the BIVRI disks will give you a huge bonus of siblings..
..but still unfortunately no Jane or Mary. DOUGLAS, John Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 18 Jul 1807 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, Grizel Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 6 Jan 1810 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, James Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 19 May 1812 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, Henrietta Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 23 May 1814 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, William Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 15 Nov 1817 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
DOUGLAS, Robert Thomson Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 20 Jun 1820 Recorded in: Colvend, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Father: James DOUGLAS
Mother: Jean THOMSON
Source: FHL Film 1067973 Dates: 1781 - 1854
From a search in 1841 it appears that Jane was already widowed so there really is no sure way to trace her mysterious shepherd husband. Unfortunately Jane herself seems to have disappeared/died between 1851 and 1855 so again no way to prove the THOMSON/WALTON surname.
Like I said above. If we trust the relationships stated in the 1851 census then Samuel's mom Jane was a daughter of James DOUGLAS and Jane/Jean THOMSON and the above listing of offspring would be her siblings.
Best wishes
Jean
-
SarahND
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5647
- Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
- Location: France
Very nice sleuthing, Jean!
I was just going to add something here, when I saw your contribution had arrived in the meantime and made a lot more sense than what I was going to write! I saw Henrietta and Grizel, then was also looking at this other family with 5 daughters, one being Jane.
Children of John Douglas and Janet Hume, all christened in Colvend:
Agnes 5 Mar 1818
Jane 1 May 1821
Jessie 10 Oct 1826
Mary 6 Jun 1828
Elizabeth 20 Nov 1830
But since you found James on the DC, it is much more likely that Jane was the daughter of James Douglas and Jean Thomson.
Nice work!
Sarah
I was just going to add something here, when I saw your contribution had arrived in the meantime and made a lot more sense than what I was going to write! I saw Henrietta and Grizel, then was also looking at this other family with 5 daughters, one being Jane.
Children of John Douglas and Janet Hume, all christened in Colvend:
Agnes 5 Mar 1818
Jane 1 May 1821
Jessie 10 Oct 1826
Mary 6 Jun 1828
Elizabeth 20 Nov 1830
But since you found James on the DC, it is much more likely that Jane was the daughter of James Douglas and Jean Thomson.
Nice work!
Sarah
-
JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
Hello folks
You know...the more I think about this one the more bothered I become.
There is a wee small niggling feeling that this still isn't right I'm out of credits at the moment so any further attempts are stalled. The problem area is the DC of the Henrietta I took to be the Henrietta sister to Jane dau of Jane etc etc etc. There are several Henriettas floating about at that time and there is a gap right now from knowing I have the correct one in 1861 to not knowing if I have the correct DC in 1898. Matter of fact I'm truly doubting my previous assumptions Finding the right one in 1871 will help...but at the moment that hasn't happened....
I think this one is to be continued...........
Best wishes
Jean
You know...the more I think about this one the more bothered I become.
There is a wee small niggling feeling that this still isn't right I'm out of credits at the moment so any further attempts are stalled. The problem area is the DC of the Henrietta I took to be the Henrietta sister to Jane dau of Jane etc etc etc. There are several Henriettas floating about at that time and there is a gap right now from knowing I have the correct one in 1861 to not knowing if I have the correct DC in 1898. Matter of fact I'm truly doubting my previous assumptions Finding the right one in 1871 will help...but at the moment that hasn't happened....I think this one is to be continued...........
Best wishes
Jean
-
ian douglas
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 7:21 pm
Douglas Family Ancestors
Hi Jean,
Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but I've been looking closely at Jane's DC, and I am almost certain that the original name which was crossed out and altered to William is Samuel. Perhaps Jane's son Samuel and the registrar got their lines crossed when registering the death.
I can see the upper and lower loops of the capital S, and if you look at capital Js on the DC, they all have a vertical line as a bottom half, not a loop.
I very much appreciate all the effort you and all the other folks who have replied have been putting in, and I am feeling much more positive about my search than I did 2 days ago, in fact, more optimistic than I have for almost a year!
A very grateful
Ian Douglas
Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but I've been looking closely at Jane's DC, and I am almost certain that the original name which was crossed out and altered to William is Samuel. Perhaps Jane's son Samuel and the registrar got their lines crossed when registering the death.
I can see the upper and lower loops of the capital S, and if you look at capital Js on the DC, they all have a vertical line as a bottom half, not a loop.
I very much appreciate all the effort you and all the other folks who have replied have been putting in, and I am feeling much more positive about my search than I did 2 days ago, in fact, more optimistic than I have for almost a year!
A very grateful
Ian Douglas