Who are the parents?.....

[joette]

Looking at the 1881 Census & thought I had struck gold with the naming of three different grandchildren in the MKimmie household.
Grange Banff@Balnamoon Hill. Vol 156 ED 5 P4.
James Stronnach-8-B-Grange Banff
Ann Collie-12-B-Grange Banff
William Mann-2-B-Grange Banff.
I can find no birth for the first two although I did find Ann on the 1891 Census but in service but still in Keith.
It is William Mann that intrigues me.His Birth on 6th June 1878-his Mother is listed as Jane Mann-Domestic servant & he is listed as illegetimate & named William Betram Mann
On William Mann's Death Certificate-1930-Rosehall-Sutherland he is named as William Betram Mann Lobban!his parents are listed as Jane Mann-Domestic servant Dec.& William Bertram.
What I want to know is how is he Isabella Moir's Grandson-she is widowed
& is using her maiden name.
At first I thought George McKimmie had taken in his son but in the 1891 Census he is listed as his nephew.
George does have a sister Jane McKimmie- I can find no marriage of her to a Mann but presume she is the Jane Mann listed on William's Birth certificate.I can't find a death for her to confirm she was ever named Mann.
Where/when did the Lobban appear(no trace in the 1901 Census) & when/where did William Mann marry Jane Riddoch I can find no marriage for them either.His son William B Mann Lobban is informant on Death Certificate.I would like to see the Marriage to check what he claims as his parents!
Thought I had found some more marriage/children but can find no trace of Marriage/Birth apart from William's.
Maybe I am finally going & I am missing something obvious!
Help.

[isobelc]

Hi Joette,

I think the reason you can't find James and Ann is that they were actually registered with the surname McKimmie.

James was born 18/9/1872 in Grange, illeg. son of Margaret McKimmie.
Ann was born 24/6/1868 in Grange, illeg. daughter of Margaret McKimmie

I also think that the William Mann you found is not the same one that is on the census. A William McKimmie was born in Grange in 1878 and though I haven't checked it out I suspect he may also be the son of Margaret Mckimmie and it is him that is on the census.

Presumably the surnames are a hint as to their fathers. There was an Alexander Stronnach who had two or three kids in Grange in the early 1870's but has disappeared by the time of the census in 1881, he might be a possibility for James. There was also the following Mann family in Grange in 1881:-

Dwelling: Woodpark
Census Place: Grange, Banff, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203439 GRO Ref Volume 156 EnumDist 4 Page 7
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Adam MANN W 63 M Fyvie, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Farmer Of 26 Ac Arable
John MANN U 38 M Grange, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Farmers Son
Elizabeth MANN U 21 F Grange, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Farmers Dr
Mary MANN 10 F Grange, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Grand Dr
Occ: Scholar
Williamina MANN 2 F Deskford, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Grand Dr
Alexr. DUNCAN 2 m M Grange, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Grandson


No obvious Collie suspects.

HTH
Isobel (Edinburgh)

[joette]

Thanks for that Isabel I had not taken into account the fact they might be illegitimate.
William Mann is indeed the son of Margaret McKimmie.William marries in 1900 still using the name Mann although it is indexed as McKimmie & he gives his Father as William Mann-engine driver dec.
With so many married daughters I was hoping for a lead on their married names without spending a fortune at SP.
So the other William Mann is no connection although Jane Mann is living in the same street as Margaret's brother in the 1881 Census.

[isobelc]

Hi Joette,

I think this might be your Jane in 1881-

Dwelling: Berryhillock
Census Place: Deskford, Banff, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203438 GRO Ref Volume 151 EnumDist 3 Page 5
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Robert CRUICKSHANK M 46 M Cromdale, Inverness, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Miller (Meal & Barley) Emp 2 Men 1 Woman
Jane MC KINNEY (CRUICKSHANK) M 32 F Grange, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Millers Wife
Robert CRUICKSHANK U 19 M Keith, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Assistant Miller
Janet CRUICKSHANK 14 F Keith, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Jane CRUICKSHANK 2 F Deskford, Banff, Scotland
Rel: Daur
John MC KAY U 26 M Auchindore, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Miller
Bella MC KINNEY U 19 F Huntly, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Serv
Occ: Domestic Serv

Robert junior and Janet are the children of Robert and his first wife Isabella Hay. In 1877 Robert married Jane Mckimmie in Deskford Banff. Jane (2) is presumably a daughter of this second marriage. I haven't checked the marriage cert. (151/00/0005) however
the age and place of birth of Jane match with those of Jane, daughter of George McKimmie and Isabella Moir.

Jane McKimmie or Cruickshank died in Deskford in 1937.

Regards,
Isobel

[joette]

Thank you again Isobel for that lead.
I am wondering now if Bella McKinney is a relative too will check that out & now off to have a look at her Death & maybe a couple of Census' to check out the family.